Dann doch noch

Hausmeister

Senior Member
Tagalog ni Balagtas
Er hat nicht Wort gehalten und den Wagen nicht gewaschen. Später hat er ihn aber dann doch noch geputzt."

What does "dann doch noch" mean? Dangge!
 
  • Kajjo

    Senior Member
    Ja, gerade "doch" und "noch" sind zwei Wörter, die Nicht-Muttersprachler extrem oft falsch verwenden. Sei da ganz beim Sprechen vorsichtig und drücke dich notfalls anders aus. Es ist wirklich verdammt schwierig...
     

    exgerman

    Senior Member
    NYC
    English but my first language was German
    I believe the connotation of doch noch is closer to finally/eventually/in the end than to after all.

    You're not calling in the end unidiomatic, are you?
    It's unidiomatic at the end of the sentence. If you want to use in the end, you have to put it in the front: But in the end he cleaned it after all.

    After all just expresses the contrariness of doch---he wasn't going to do it but then he did. In the end or later on give the time when he did it. To my mind, later on corresponds better to später but judgments about that can reasonably differ.
     

    perpend

    Banned
    American English
    SR: But he cleaned it in the end.

    EG: Later on he cleaned it after all.

    For what it's worth, think there are quite a number of ways to express this.

    SR's version does basically sum up what happened in an efficient, but I would say more what EG's version says. I think it more fully expresses what the German does, if that makes sense.

    We also might use a different tense for this. If you take SR's version, but use "did clean", it comes out more "complete" for me.

    But he did clean it in the end.

    Here's my own version of what I imagine: But he did end up cleaning it after all.

    Again, just my personal observation, for what it's worth.
     

    bearded

    Senior Member
    Standard Italian
    Exgerman:
    In the end gives the time when he did it
    Is there no difference then between 'in the end' and 'at the end'? My non-native's feeling was that 'in the end' was very similar to 'after all'.
    Also in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary (''end: definition no.7, example'') ''in the end = after all''.
     
    Last edited:

    Hutschi

    Senior Member
    We have the time: "Später".
    "Doch noch" combines two ideas:
    doch - contrary to what he wanted to do and according to what he promised.
    noch - is here a particle belonging to "doch" and adds the idea that he did it before it was too late, but we did not expect it anymore.
    So I would say it is "after all", too. & Thanks for clarifying that "in the end" does not sound idiomatic.

    Later on he did it nevertheless. (Would this work?)
     

    exgerman

    Senior Member
    NYC
    English but my first language was German
    Later on he did it nevertheless. (Would this work?)
    Again, nevertheless has to go at the front: Nevertheless, he did it afterwards. It would be hard to stuff all three (nevertheless, later on, after all) into a single sentence. They are not particles like the German words, so the sentence becomes more emphatic the more of them you add..

    After all is an idiom whose meaning is totally unrelated to the meanings of after and all. When at the end of a clause, it means, as Merriam-Webster defines it:
    in spite of any indications or expectations to the contrary.
    "I called and told her I couldn't come after all"
    So in this particular sentence (although not in the general case), it is a very good match for doch.
     
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