dass es zu keines Schützen Sicherheit beitrage

Sehenswert

Member
English
Hi everyone,

I came across the below sentence and although I think Iunderstand the general meaning, the use of “keines Schützen” seems unusual. I am also unsure what the subject and object in this part of the sentence is!

“Sein Blick glitt immer öfter von der Frau ab, während ersich sagte, dass es zu keines Schützen Sicherheit beitrage, sein Ziel endloslange im Visier zu halten.”

Can anyone help me with this? Thanks so much!
 
  • exgerman

    Senior Member
    NYC
    English but my first language was German
    Der Schütze means marksman, sharpshooter. The sein in sein Ziel refers to this hypothetical marksman, who is not to the same person as the sein that starts the sentence.

    The subject of the main clause feels that it doesn't contribute to a sharpshooter's safety when he pursues his target for a long time.
     
    Last edited:

    berndf

    Moderator
    German (Germany)
    he use of “keines Schützen” seems unusual.
    Keines Schützen is genitive of kein Schütze (no marksman). The whole thing is a genitive attribute of Sicherheit, i.e. keines Schützen Sicherheit means the security of no marksman (definiteness is implied by a genitive attribute and therefore there is no definite article). The construction is not unusual but is considered exalted style today, so you are unlikely to hear it in colloquial conversations.
     

    PaceFalmPG

    Senior Member
    German
    Are you sure the part "dass es zu keines Schützen Sicherheit beitrage" is copied correctly? Just wondering, because the grammar seems to be wrong.
     

    berndf

    Moderator
    German (Germany)
    Are you sure the part "dass es zu keines Schützen Sicherheit beitrage" is copied correctly? Just wondering, because the grammar seems to be wrong.
    There is nothing wrong with the grammar of the clause.
    Infinitive: zu etwas beitragen.
    Present subjunctive: es trage zu etwas bei.
    Subordinate clause word order: dass es zu etwas beitrage.
    Replacement of etwas by the complex noun phrase keines Schützen Sicherheit: dass es zu keines Schützen Sicherheit beitrage.
     
    Last edited:

    berndf

    Moderator
    German (Germany)
    The last step (replacement of etwas by kleines Schützen Sicherheit) sounds wrong.
    1. You copied it wrong: It is keines Schützen Sicherheit and not kleines Schützen Sicherheit.
    2. There is nothing wrong with it. See my explanation of the construct in #3 above.
     

    PaceFalmPG

    Senior Member
    German
    Oh my god, my bad, sorry. I've read this sentence like 20 times and thought it's "kleines". I shouldn't post on here after a long and hard day at work. :(
     

    Demiurg

    Senior Member
    German
    Bernd is right. This construction is called "vorangestelltes Genitivattribut" (preceding genitive attribute). Explanation on canoo.net:
    The genitive attribute usually comes after the noun:

    die Eltern seiner Frau
    ...

    Exceptions:

    - Person names (and kinship terms used as person names) which are not accompanied by a determiner, are usually placed before the noun:

    Sandros Geburtstag
    ...

    - Other nouns only precede the noun in idiomatic expressions and in literary or very formal language:

    aller Laster Anfang
    Der Mensch ist des Menschen Wolf.
    des Kaisers neue Kleider
    des kleinen Sandros Geburtstag
    The phrase "keines Schützen Sicherheit" falls in the last category. The usual word order (genitive attribute after the noun) is:

    die Sicherheit keines Schützen
     

    Sehenswert

    Member
    English
    Thanks to you all for your help and input.

    I have seen this genitiv use before, but now it is much clearer after the information you have provided :) My problem was that for some reason I was thinking of the verb "schützen" being used as a noun or the noun "Schutz" and was confused with the lack of genitiv "s" or "es" at the end. I forgot about the weak masculine "n" declension.

    So thank you all for putting me right and for the extra information :thumbsup:
     
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