Deductions for social security and income tax have been made before

Imladris

Senior Member
Turkey - Turkish
Deductions for social security and income tax have been made before the wage earner receives a pay check.

Is this sentence correct? I haven't seen the present perfect + before + simple present used this way before? What do you think? Is it possible?
 
  • JamesM

    Senior Member
    Yes, it's simply a passive construction of:

    "The Payroll department has/have made deductions for social security and income tax before the wage earner receives a paycheck."

    Another similar example would be:

    "Check to ensure that all appropriate boxes have been filled in/out before you submit your application."
     
    Last edited:

    Imladris

    Senior Member
    Turkey - Turkish
    How can we extend this usage? It seems kind of weird to me. Can we say

    I have made my bed before I leave home.

    and if yes, why would we say this instead of

    I made my bed before I left home.

    And in the original sentence why not simple past on both sides?
     

    JamesM

    Senior Member
    "I am consistent in my habits. For example, the bed has been made before I leave home."


    I am afraid I am no expert in the why's of grammar. :( This format for a sentence is not unusual. It is a little formal. Perhaps someone else can speak to the reasoning behind the grammar.

    The difference between "I have made my bed before I leave home" and "I made my bed before I left home" is that the first describes a habitual or typical behavior and the second refers to only one instance of bedmaking.
     

    Imladris

    Senior Member
    Turkey - Turkish
    [1] I have made my bed before I leave home.
    [2] I have made my bed before I leave home this morning.


    Can't this be one instance of bed-making too? Is 2 wrong?
     

    JamesM

    Senior Member
    [2] is definitely wrong.

    "I have made my bed before I leave home" is similar to "I am in the habit of making my bed before I leave home", at least to me. It reports on a habit as a reliable event. "(You can be sure that) I have made my bed before I leave home."

    It is not usual to talk about making your bed in this way, by the way. :)
     

    Imladris

    Senior Member
    Turkey - Turkish
    [2] is definitely wrong.

    "I have made my bed before I leave home" is similar to "I am in the habit of making my bed before I leave home", at least to me. It reports on a habit as a reliable event. "(You can be sure that) I have made my bed before I leave home."

    It is not usual to talk about making your bed in this way, by the way. :)
    Has it secondary connotations? :)

    What about this? This is a one-instance case, right?

    All precautions have been taken before Prime Minister Tayyip Erdoğan starts his speech.

    This one sounds more like a general habit of the last two years.

    I have made my bed every day for the last two years.
     

    KHS

    Senior Member
    [2] is definitely wrong.

    "I have made my bed before I leave home" is similar to "I am in the habit of making my bed before I leave home", at least to me. It reports on a habit as a reliable event. "(You can be sure that) I have made my bed before I leave home."

    It is not usual to talk about making your bed in this way, by the way. :)
    Generally, use of present perfect rather than simple present indicates slightly less sureness of the future:

    Most of the time, he has made his bed before he leaves the house (but maybe not in the future)

    Most of the time, he makes his bed before he leaves the house (you expect this to continue)
     

    Cagey

    post mod (English Only / Latin)
    English - US
    [....]
    What about this? This is a one-instance case, right?

    All precautions have been taken before Prime Minister Tayyip Erdoğan starts his speech.
    [....]
    This one seems to me to be written in the historical present, that is, it is about something that happened in the past:
    All precautions had been taken before Prime Minister Tayyip Erdoğan started his speech.
    but rewritten in the present tense.

    I think this because this is context in which the present perfect might be used with before and the present tense to refer to a single event. The other possibility is that this is a caption for a photograph, a context in which the historical present is often found.
     

    Imladris

    Senior Member
    Turkey - Turkish
    My last question:

    I have seen your father before I come here.

    :)

    Is this sentence correct? If not, how would you express the idea?
     

    Cagey

    post mod (English Only / Latin)
    English - US
    My last question:

    I have seen your father before I come here.:cross:

    :)

    Is this sentence correct? If not, how would you express the idea?
    I can't think of a context in which I would say the above sentence.

    I might say:
    I have seen your father before I came here.
     
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