der Mann, dem das Bein abgeschlagen worden war

sunsail

Senior Member
de langue Turc
hallo

"wenn sie stimmte,konnte es sich bei dem Mann,dem das Bein agbeschlagen oder abgerissen worden war..." what is the function of "dem" and what does it mean literally?
does it mean "of which"?

danke
 
  • exgerman

    Senior Member
    NYC
    English but my first language was German
    It mans the same as ...dessen Bein abgeschlagen war.

    Grammatically, the dem is the same syntax as the mir in Ich ziehe mir die Handschuhe an---a dative of the person affected by an action. German tends to use such a dative instead of the genitive if the relationship between possessing person and possessed object is obvious.
     

    sunsail

    Senior Member
    de langue Turc
    It mans the same as ...dessen Bein abgeschlagen war.

    Grammatically, the dem is the same syntax as the mir in Ich ziehe mir die Handschuhe an---a dative of the person affected by an action. German tends to use such a dative instead of the genitive if the relationship between possessing person and possessed object is obvious.
    thanks this makes it more clear for me.because when I read it I get the meaning like "whose" but it confused me because it is in dativ form.

    Is there a keyword for this rule below that I can search on google?
    "German tends to use such a dative instead of the genitive if the relationship between possessing person and possessed object is obvious."
     

    exgerman

    Senior Member
    NYC
    English but my first language was German
    Let's start with an active verb in a main clause: Sie haben ihm das Bein abgeschlagen "they hacked off his leg", literally "they hacked off the leg, and it affected him". The dative ihm specifies the person affected by the action of the verb, and German doesn't say sein Bein, because it's obvious from the ihm whose leg is being cut off.

    Now let's make it passive: Ihm wurde das Bein abgeschlagen.

    Now let's take the passive main clause, and turn it into a relative clause: der Mann, dem das Bein abgeschlagen wurde.

    This is the best explanation I've found of the grammar, but unfortunately the examples are all in the old Fractur typeface. Also read section 258.3.B.a on page 537.
     
    Last edited:

    sunsail

    Senior Member
    de langue Turc
    "Sie haben ihm das Bein abgeschlagen" literally it means " they hacked him(to him , dativ) off his leg" I guess?

    Is this a general rule?

    Because in spanish and french when the body parts is the issue then this structure is used before the verb,not after verb like in german.This is my observation.

    Let's start with an active verb in a main clause: Sie haben ihm das Bein abgeschlagen "they hacked off his leg", literally "they hacked off the leg, and it affected him". The dative ihm specifies the person affected by the action of the verb, and German doesn't say sein Bein, because it's obvious from the ihm whose leg is being cut off.

    Now let's make it passive: Ihm wurde das Bein abgeschlagen.

    Now let's take the passive main clause, and turn it into a relative clause: der Mann, dem das Bein abgeschlagen wurde.

    This is the best explanation I've found of the grammar, but unfortunately the examples are all in the old Fractur typeface. Also read section 258.3.B.a on page 537.
     

    oberhaenslir

    Banned
    German, Switzerland
    hallo

    "wenn sie stimmte,konnte es sich bei dem Mann,dem das Bein agbeschlagen oder abgerissen worden war..." what is the function of "dem" and what does it mean literally?
    does it mean "of which"?
    danke
    Was ist denn das für ein verunglückter Teilsatz? Was willst du sagen?

    "Wenn die Identifikation stimmte, konnte es sich bei dem Mann, dem das Bein abgeschlagen oder abgerissen worden war, nur um den Werkmeister handeln."

    Satzglieder:

    Wenn die Identifikation stimmte, > Adverbiale
    konnte > Prädikat 1. Teil
    es > Subjekt
    sich > Akkusativobjekt
    bei dem Mann, dem das Bein abgeschlagen oder abgerissen worden war, > Präpositionalobjekt (mit Apposition als Relativnebensatz im Dativ)
    nur > Adverbiale
    um den Werkmeister > Präpositionalobjekt
    handeln. > Prädikat 2.Teil

    Das 'dem' ist also als Wortart ein Relativpronomen im Dativ.

    .
     
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