derivar(se)

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españolespancomido

Senior Member
English - United States
Esta palabra deriva del chino. = This word derives from Chinese.
Esta palabra se deriva del chino. = This word derives from Chinese.
¿Cuál es la diferencia aquí?
 
  • Breanna D-K

    Member
    English - United States
    Perhaps I'm naughty for answering in English, but it looks like that's your native language, so what the hey... The second sentence could translate, "This word is derived from Chinese." Using the pronoun "se" in front of an otherwise regularly-conjugated verb is a short way of essentially using the past participle. "Esta palabra está derivada del chino" = "Esta palabra se deriva del chino."
     

    españolespancomido

    Senior Member
    English - United States
    Perhaps I'm naughty for answering in English, but it looks like that's your native language, so what the hey... The second sentence could translate, "This word is derived from Chinese." Using the pronoun "se" in front of an otherwise regularly-conjugated verb is a short way of essentially using the past participle. "Esta palabra está derivada del chino" = "Esta palabra se deriva del chino."
    Point taken.

    However, I am wondering when the translation to English is the same for both verb conjugations, what is the difference? The two versions of Spanish and the same version of English were given in a book for learning Spanish.
     
    Last edited:

    Ferrol

    Senior Member
    Spanish.España
    Aunque se entiende perfectamente, sería mas frecuente "procede" o "viene" .
    I reckon "it comes from Chinese" is likewise used more frequently than "it is derived..."
     

    españolespancomido

    Senior Member
    English - United States
    Aunque se entiende perfectamente, sería mas frecuente "procede" o "viene" .
    I reckon "it comes from Chinese" is likewise used more frequently than "it is derived..."
    Thank you!
    I would say This word is derived from Chinese as opposed to This word derives from Chinese.
    It is correct to say This word comes from Chinese.
     

    spilorrific

    Senior Member
    English - US
    Is derived from :tick:
    Derives from :confused: (I've seen this in print but it does not seem as good to me as "is derived from.")
    Comes from :tick: (This seems less formal to me than "is derived from.")
    Can be traced back to ?
     

    Cenzontle

    Senior Member
    English, U.S.
    So, back to españolespancomido's question:
    It seems that Eng. "derive" and Sp. "derivar" can both be either transitive or intransitive.
    Eng. trans.: A derives B from C. Therefore, in the passive, B is derived from C.
    Eng. tntrans.: B derives from C.
    This graph suggests that, in English, the transitive-made-passive ("is derived from") is more frequent than the intransitive.
    Sp. trans. (made passive): B se deriva de C.
    Sp. intrans.: B deriva de C.
    Contrary to English, this graph suggests that in Spanish the intransitive ("deriva", no "se") is more frequent.
    I'm confident that there's no difference in meaning.
     

    ilya

    Senior Member
    Spanish (Spain), German
    Absolutely no difference in meaning in Spanish. The DRAE (Academic Dictionnary) is adamant about it:

    Derivar 2. intr. Gram. Dicho de una palabra: Proceder de cierta base léxica. Extensión deriva de extender. U. t. c. prnl. (= Utilízase también como pronominal = also used as reflexive = you can say both "derivar" and "derivarse").

    That said, I would normally say "se deriva de" but no doubt both are correct and mean the same.
     
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