des prestations sociales et diverses

Codpiece

Member
English
Hi there

Can anyone help me with,

"des prestations sociales et diverses"

In particular are "diverses" a type of government investment?

Thanks
 
  • Codpiece

    Member
    English
    sorry, context is to do with macroeconomics and national revenue.

    This phrase is from a paragraph explaining how companies gain and then distribute their revenue.

    Tks
     

    Codpiece

    Member
    English
    Sorry again!

    The complete sentence is:

    " Sont les entreprises qui sont à l´origine du partage du produit national....qui versent aux menages les differentes remunerations qui leur reviennent: salaires, prestations sociales et diverses, loyers, honoraires, dividendes etc.."

    Thanks again!
     
    Last edited:

    LivingTree

    Banned
    English - Canadian
    I will delete if you prefer, but we really do need the complete sentence to see what the author is saying:

    Ce sont les entreprises qui sont à l'origine du partage du produit national, puisqu'il n'y a pas de recettes ou de revenus qui ne passent entre leurs mains, et que ce sont elles qui versent aux ménages les différentes rémunérations qui leur reviennent sous une forme ou une autre : salaires, prestations sociales et diverses, loyers, honoraires, intérêts, dividendes et autres prélèvements sur les résultats.
    Which is one capitalistic view of the economy. ;)

    The author seems to be saying that corporations are responsible for all revenue that households receive, even from sources other than employment (which would include wages and non-wage benefits like health insurance and parental leave and such). Whether this makes sense or not ... it does seem to be what it's saying. The money that households receive in the form of prestations sociales et diverses comes at least indirectly from corporations. I don't think it's referring to "benefits" that are part of an employee's wage "package".

    So in this case it does seem to be "social security and other benefits". ("Other" would cover public health insurance, for instance, I would think.)

    Prélèvements sur les résultats leaves me perplexed here; along the lines of money taken out of profits? Dunno.

    I'd be grateful if a French speaker would confirm or deny. ;)
     

    Moon Palace

    Senior Member
    French
    I have read the exposé, and the author doesn't actually say that firms directly generate all of the country's revenue, but that at one time or another, this revenue happens to be in their hands.

    As regards the question, I would suggest: social and other benefits.
     

    LivingTree

    Banned
    English - Canadian
    Indeed, I was over-reading sont à l'origine du partage du produit national, perhaps, although it does really colour "at one time or another, this revenue happens to be in their hands" a particular way; really. At one time or another, the money that corporations distribute was in consumers' hands ... before it was in the corporations' hands ... before it was in the workers' hands ... and it was the workers' labour that generated it ... (chicken, egg?). It is a strange simplification and expresses a very particular POV.

    "Social benefits" is not a good choice in English, I'm afraid.

    Dictionaries give "social(-)security benefits" for prestations sociales. Another perfectly good option is "social welfare benefits".

    You might occasionally see "social benefits" but there is the possibility of serious confusion there: we talk, for instance, about "the social benefits of education", which have nothing to do with prestations and everything to do with avantages. And then of course there is the further opportunity for confusion that avantages sociaux refers to "benefits" in the sense of "fringe benefits" associated with employment, to bring us full circle.

    OECD Glossary English-French
    defines "social benefits", "social benefits in kind", "social benefits other than social transfers in kind", "social security benefits" / "social welfare benefits", "social security benefits in cash". It's worth having a look at. For "social benefits", it says:
    prestations sociales ; avantages (transferts) sociaux ; avantages pour la collectivité (société)
    I always think it best to avoid introducing unnecessary confusion. Prestations sociales is really best translated as "social(-)security benefits".
     

    LivingTree

    Banned
    English - Canadian
    I think that when the British government refers to "social benefits", it is clear from that context what it is referring to, i.e. social security benefits. Ditto for the LSE in that context.

    I think that the text under consideration in this thread does not provide nearly as clear a context, and that the perfectly CORRECT and COMMON and UNDERSTOOD term "social(-)security benefits" is the appropriate choice in this case, to avert potential confusion.

    Given that my first language is English, and that I have considerable expertise in the field of social policy and public finance, both conceptually and linguistically, I feel quite competent to judge the potential for confusion created by particular terms in particular contexts in these fields.

    Thank you for asking.
     

    Moon Palace

    Senior Member
    French
    Strange that your expertise does not allow you to side with the OECD statistical terms glossary...
    French Equivalent: Prestations sociales
    Definition: Social benefits are current transfers received by households intended to provide for the needs that arise from certain events or circumstances, for example, sickness, unemployment, retirement, housing, education or family circumstances.
     

    LivingTree

    Banned
    English - Canadian
    Perhaps you will end your little campaign of personal abuse here?

    Please read my earlier post in which I quoted the OECD. I will quote it again for you:
    For "social benefits", it says:
    prestations sociales ; avantages (transferts) sociaux ; avantages pour la collectivité (société)
    The term MEANS BOTH THINGS.

    I HAVE NOT SAID OTHERWISE.

    There is potential ambiguity; there is the POTENTIAL FOR CONFUSION.

    I recommend AVOIDING that potential.

    It's very simple.

    If you disagree with my opinion that it is best to avoid ambiguity/confusion, that is your prerogative. And now, I don't think this is your pastime, or however that went. You have misrepresented my comments in two threads in the last half hour, and that is enough.
     

    Moon Palace

    Senior Member
    French
    I had read your previous post, I simply disagree on the fact that there is ambiguity, and I see no reason to resort to any authority argument.
    I dare submit the paragraph again for your reading, and I would like to know how there can be any ambiguity when social benefits would be between wages and rents, notwithstanding the fact that the whole enumeration consists of amounts of money, one way or another:


    Ce sont les entreprises qui sont à l'origine du partage du produit national, puisqu'il n'y a pas de recettes ou de revenus qui ne passent entre leurs mains, et que ce sont elles qui versent aux ménages les différentes rémunérations qui leur reviennent sous une forme ou une autre : salaires, prestations sociales et diverses, loyers, honoraires, intérêts, dividendes et autres prélèvements sur les résultats.
    Now I see no problem with disagreeing, I just don't think there is one, unique translation. Ever.
     
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