Describing the End of an Action

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kort oo!s

Member
汉语(Chinese)
I've been wondering how to express the end of an action.
All I've found is pretty much like this:
食べあがる
食べきれる
食べ終える

I'm not sure if they're right under most circumstances. Would I do it right by just putting these after the torso of a verb?

Your help is always appreciated.
ありがとうございます。
 
  • Flaminius

    coclea mod
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    Hi,

    Welcome to the WR forums, kort oo!s. :)

    I'd be glad to answer your question but right now I am not sure if I understand what you mean by the end of an action. In the most simple expression, you can just say 食べた. You may be interested in more subtle expressions but, in order for us to provide them, you should give more detailed explanations of what you want to know. If it were a translation I'd just request more context. Since your question looks like a grammatical one, it's probably better to engage you in a discussion. What do you think are the nuances of the three forms you listed and why do you think what you think?
     

    kort oo!s

    Member
    汉语(Chinese)
    Hi, thanks for your kind suggestions, Flaminus. I, too, think I need to explain a bit more on second view.
    What I wanted to ask was how to describe finish doing sth., like in the sentences as follow:
    A. I've just finished my lunch.
    B. Finally, I finished my homework.
    C. Would you please go on and finish that song for me?

    Here're my attempts.
    A.  昼ごはんを食べあがったばかりです
    B. やっと、宿題をやりきれた。
    C. その曲を歌い終えてほしいね。

    Are they correct? Also I want to know if I've got the nuance right.
    I'd go for:
    A. あがる emphasize the finish and stop of some action.
    B. きれる emphasize the finish of sth. complicated and that needs more procedures to finish.
    C. 終える just reveals the simple truth of an end.
    That's what I think.

    Also according to my understanding, きれる bears the meaning of "swipe out", "finish and make clean", so it's supposed to be applicable only in some circumstances, right? ...There were such examples in my mind, but now they escaped. Sorry. I'd come up with them later.
    ..
    食べきれるっという言葉は応用にはありますか?

    以上
    Thanks
     

    Flaminius

    coclea mod
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    A very exhaustive research, kort! And with well-thought opinions at that.

    A. I've just finished my lunch.
    B. Finally, I finished my homework.
    C. Would you please go on and finish that song for me?

    Here're my attempts.
    A. 昼ごはんを食べあがったばかりです
    B. やっと、宿題をやりきれた。
    C. その曲を歌い終えてほしいね。
    All the three are unnatural to different extents. Sentence A is downright ungrammatical. B is okay depending on the context and C is somewhat wooden.

    A. For constructions for an action completed in the immediate past, the simple ta will do.
    食べたところ/ばかりだ。
    If you emphasize the sense of completion, augment the main verb with 終える:
    食べ終えたところ/ばかりだ。

    B. completion after a lot of effort
    Adverbs such as やっと, とうとう, ついに already imply effort. In your example, やり終える is one possibility but it is more frequent to say やっと宿題が終わった. I'd use a different construction for a different verb. It's very difficult to generalise as each verb has a different semantic as well as grammatical implications.

    C. performing something to the very end
    歌い終える "just reveals the simple truth of an end." In fact, if the performer stops singing in the middle, you can still describe the situation as 歌い終えた. Possible translations are 歌いきる and —とおす. It is still more natural to use 最後まで:
    その曲、最後まで歌ってくれない?

    A. あがる emphasize the finish and stop of some action.
    B. きれる emphasize the finish of sth. complicated and that needs more procedures to finish.
    Granted that we often see あがる (intransitive) and きれる (potential, as well as intransitive), I'd like to cite the transitive forms because they are the more frequent and versatile forms.

    A. あげる
    The action A denoted by the verb V continues for some time. When A is over, a product is produced:
    レポートを3日で書きあげた。
    工場はあと一ヶ月でできあがる。 [できあがる is already an independent word.]

    The reason 食べあげる is wrong is that the the act of eating does not create any product (well, except for a full belly and a few burps).

    B. きる
    completing an action, with little resources remaining
    時間内に食べきった implies that the speaker ate everything up just a few minutes before the deadline.

    食べきれるという言葉は応用にはありますか?
    I don't understand what you mean by 応用 here but let me create a new sentence with the potential 食べきれる.
    椎茸を食べきれないほどもらった。
    Again, the sense of almost exhausting one's resource is present. The resource here is your capability to eat and it is feared to be exceeded by the amount of mushrooms you got from someone.

    Edit:
    In the final analysis, what I have said here are just general impressions. Obviously I could not cover all the verbs of completion and my explanations are not very versatile. It is good that we have laid a basis for the grammatical feature but in fact each of the verbs needs deeper and more specific discussion. If you have further questions, please create a new thread devoted to one and only one verb and bring a specific Japanese sentence to discuss.
     
    Last edited:

    Aoyama

    Senior Member
    français Clodoaldien
    食べきれる = to eat up, to finish eating all that was supposed to be eaten (in quantity).
    Hence 椎茸を食べきれないほどもらった = I received/was served [such] an amount of mushrooms (shiitaké) [that] I couldn't eat [it] up/possibly finish (it).
    Food for thought ...
     

    kort oo!s

    Member
    汉语(Chinese)
    Wow, thanks for your detailed reply.
    Eh, about the transitive/in~, I think I knew the difference.

    昼ごはんは食べあがった。That's what I wanted to say, deprived from 雨上がり。That may be another question though. But at some point I just wanna try something I make up, even if it's outrageously wrong. Just to check if I got the essence of it.

    As to "食べきれるという言葉は応用にはありますか?", I'm sorry it's probably a bit "Chipanese". It seems another attempt to make convenience by using Chinese way of speaking. It was meant "食べきれるという言葉は実際の運用にはあるか。"(応用 was meant as application.)

    @ gotoba, IMO, I'm pretty sure the suffixes will make a verb transitive/in~ following the attributes of the suffixes themselves.
     

    lammn

    Senior Member
    Chinese - Cantonese
    As to "食べきれるという言葉は応用にはありますか?", I'm sorry it's probably a bit "Chipanese". It seems another attempt to make convenience by using Chinese way of speaking. It was meant "食べきれるという言葉は実際の運用にはあるか
    Hi, kort, きれる is the potential form of きる.
    Since you are a Chinese speaker, I think I can explain to you the usage of Vきれる/Vきれない in Chinese:

    Vきれる 表示把一个动作做尽的意思。举例说:
    隠しきれない喜び」 是“无法尽掩心中的喜悦”的意思。
    「愛しても愛しきれない」 是“虽然爱某人却因受某种原因制肘而不能尽爱的意思”。

    食べきれる就是把某东西吃尽吃得一乾二净的意思,而不是吃完的意思。
    所以日语中有使用「食べきれる」这个字,但表达的意思和你原来想像的不一样。:)
     

    kort oo!s

    Member
    汉语(Chinese)
    Hi, kort, きれる is the potential form of きる.
    Since you are a Chinese speaker, I think I can explain to you the usage of Vきれる/Vきれない in Chinese:

    Vきれる 表示把一个动作做尽的意思。举例说:
    隠しきれない喜び」 是“无法尽掩心中的喜悦”的意思。
    「愛しても愛しきれない」 是“虽然爱某人却因受某种原因制肘而不能尽爱的意思”。

    食べきれる就是把某东西吃尽吃得一乾二净的意思,而不是吃完的意思。
    所以日语中有使用「食べきれる」这个字,但表达的意思和你原来想像的不一样。:)
    Thank you so much.
    非常感謝。
     
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