Detour

ThomasK

Senior Member
Belgium, Dutch
What is your word for 'detour' if I may ask? I think different words (and metaphors) are used...

Dutch: omweg (a way around, is some possible translation - you don't go straight to the point, but you take a long way around that straightcut, or something). (German: Umweg ???)

Fr./ Eng. : detour (off-road, I think)

I still wonder whether we have paraphrases, but I can't imagine any now...
 
  • Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    Russian:
    обход - pedestrian way around (lit. around + walk)
    объезд - vehicle way around (lit. around + ride)
    окольный путь - any way around (lit. Rus. around + Anc. Rus. around + way)
    крюк - any way around (lit. hook); used in the "negative" sense.
     

    apmoy70

    Senior Member
    Greek
    In Greek:
    For vehicles and pedestrians->Παρακαμπτήρια οδός (parakamptiria oðos->detour road) or, παρακαμπτήριος (parakamptirios->detour). We use the "archaic" παρακαμπτήριος (2nd declension feminine noun ending in -οs) when the «oδός» part (road) is ommited. From the Hellenistic verb «παρακάμπτω» (para'kamptō), "to avoid by bending aside"
     

    Juan Nadie

    Senior Member
    Castellano s. XX - Spain
    I just came across "rodeo (circumlocution, encirclement, gird, rodeo, round up)" in Spanish at Webster's. Anyone who speaks Spanish around here and willing to comment on the correctness of the translation?
    Rodeo, vuelta, desvío...
    Desvío is kind of the same as in Portuguese. It sounds more official and would be the word you could listen in news.
    Rodeo is a correct translation, sure. It depends on the situation and can mean any of the possible translation that the Webster gives.
    Vuelta could be turn, round up, and the kind, but is more generic than the others two. All three of them can be used for people or vehicles or to describe how a person answers a question...
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    When talking with a Spanish lady yesterday I was reminded of a danger of misunderstanding. I was not referring to a 'deviation' (though that causes a detour), but on the concept of 'too long a way' (it could have been shorter, which one knows a priori or finds out a posteriori)... I do not know if 'rode(i)o' is a deviation as well in SPanish or Portugese...
     

    sakvaka

    Senior Member
    In Finnish 'detour' is kiertotie (kiertää = to circle, tie = road).

    Sometimes simply kierto can be used: Meille tuli kilometrin ylimääräinen kierto. We had to make an additional detour (lit. circling) of a kilometer.

    ... I was not referring to a 'deviation' (though that causes a detour), but on the concept of 'too long a way' (it could have been shorter, which one knows a priori or finds out a posteriori)
    Too long a way? This would refer to a 'shortcut'. I think detours are always longer and slower than the direct route and one would rarely make them willingly. Sometimes they just have to be made, eg. when a car accident has occurred and the traffic flow is conducted along some other route.

    'Scenic route' is of course a different concept, even in its humorous use. :)
     

    sakvaka

    Senior Member
    I don't understand : a shortcut is the opposite of a detour to me, S. But great association: a detour with a scenic route (some detours don't feel like detours indeed).
    Sorry, it was my mistake!

    I misread your sentence as that people would use detours if they want to avoid too long ways. But obviously you meant that the detours are the long ways. :)
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    I suddenly think of it: Finnish expresses the idea of 'around' like Dutch does. I am just wondering whether rodeo refers to (a)round as well...

    And I suppose 'round' here means not straight, whereas I do not see an intrinsic link between detour and around - but I guess that is quite common.
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    While 2.5 years older, I suddenly come across

    - λοξοδρόμηση (deflection, deflections, detour, detours),
    - διοχετε ω κυκλοφορ α (detour),
    - γύροσ (brim, contour, crawl, detour, hem),

    at Webster's - and I suddenly notice they have cyclo, and gyro in them, so 'circle' and thus round/ om. Can Apmoy still comment on those?
     

    apmoy70

    Senior Member
    Greek
    ThomasK said:
    While 2.5 years older, I suddenly come across
    -λοξοδρόμηση (deflection, deflections, detour, detours)
    «λοξοδρόμηση» (lokso'ðromisi, feminine noun) lit means diversion, a fork/branch in a road. From the verb «λοξοδρομώ» (loksoðro'mo)-->to diverge, deviate; compound formed with the joining together of adj. «λοξός, -ή, -ό» (lo'ksos m., lo'ksi f., lo'kso n.), from the classical adj. «λοξός, -ή, -όν» (lŏ'ksŏs m., lŏ'ksē f., lŏ'ksŏn n.; PIE base *(e)l-eq-, to bend)-->slanting, crosswise + «δρόμος» ('ðromos, masculine noun) from the classical masculine noun «δρόμος» ('drŏmŏs; PIE base *der-, to run)-->course, race. We translate deviation, divergence, diversion with «λοξοδρόμηση».
    ThomasK said:
    - διοχετε ω κυκλοφορ α (detour)
    That'd be «διοχετεύω κυκλοφορία» (ðioçe'tevo ciklofo'ria) lit. to channel traffic, i.e. to relieve traffic congestion via interchanges.
    ThomasK said:
    -γύροσ
    That'd be «γύρος» ('ʝiros masculine noun); from the Hellenistic «γῦρος» ('gūrŏs, masculine noun), from the Classical masculine noun «γυρὸς» (gū'rŏs)-->lit. rounded, curved, crooked metaph. periphery, perimeter. From PIE base *gʷelā-, knuckle. With «γύρος» we mostly describe the lap. We also describe THIS with «γύρος» :D

    [ð] is a voiced dental non-sibilant fricative
    [ç] is a voiceless palatal fricative
    [c] is a voiceless palatal plosive
    [ʝ] is a voiced palatal fricative
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    That'd be «διοχετεύω κυκλοφορία» (ðioçe'tevo ciklofo'ria) lit. to channel traffic, i.e. to relieve traffic congestion via interchanges.
    Could I then call it a kind of ring road ?

    The other gyros you refer to: of course, I now understand, because it is turning around, I guess, now I realize that. Thanks again !

    Detour probably means both a way around and a deviation in some languages, because both are longer.
     

    apmoy70

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Could I then call it a kind of ring road ?
    You mean to turn the verb into a noun? i.e. «διοχέτευση» (ðio'xetefsi, feminine noun)? It's a familiar one, but reserved mostly for siphonage; it sounds very weird when used for traffic. We mostly name the ring road as «παράκαμψη» (pa'rakampsi, feminine noun), or παρακαμπτήρια/-τήριος
    The other gyros you refer to: of course, I now understand, because it is turning around, I guess, now I realize that. Thanks again !
    haha, yes, exactly!
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    διοχέτευση/ παράκαμψη...This is wonderful, or no, intriguing: how words seeming to express the same idea/ concept/... turn out to be used quite differently!

    So not (even) κυκλοφορία then: that is something like traffic then?Thanks!
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Russian:
    обход - pedestrian way around (lit. around + walk)
    объезд - vehicle way around (lit. around + ride)
    окольный путь - any way around (lit. Rus. around + Anc. Rus. around + way)
    крюк - any way around (lit. hook); used in the "negative" sense.
    I happened to read this, and wondered about the precise pronunciation of the words. I would also like to know what the 'basic' suffix is and whether you can use in a figurative sense as well.

    I keep wondering about the om-/ round/ ob (?) versus the de- (off-/ af- in Dutch. Is ours only descriptive as such, whereas it does have a negative connotative) whereas English immediately focuses on the negative aspects? I wonder. Can you tell me whether your words are negative in themselves ? I consider round-words not intrinsically negative - and suppose most people agree with that.
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    It is in fact conceptually interesting (or semantically): to us omleiding/omlegging and omweg are very much linked. Om---ing is indeed diversion of the trafic (the first referring to police 'leading' you around, the second signs telling you to make a... detour), but results in a detour, which, to us, is the general term for the way that leads from A to B via C. Detour is so much like too long a way (as it is a way around, not through...), but it can be imposed or voluntary. However, it has a negative meaning,always. Would you think there is a perfect parallel with Finnish here?
     

    sakvaka

    Senior Member
    Would you think there is a perfect parallel with Finnish here?
    I think there is. Kiertotie as a word is apparently the opposite of a concept like suora tie, a straight way.

    My dictionary translates omleiding as [tilapäinen ajoreitti] and omlegging as tilapäistie - ie. [temporary driving route], temporary way. Square brackets indicate an explanation of an untranslatable word.

    The latter term isn't very common here, but "tilapäinen ajoreitti" is often used by the Police to describe a diversion you need to use if the main way is occupied eg. by a pile-up. However, kiertotie can be used as well.

    My dictionary (OALD 7) defines detour and diversion as follows:

    detour 1 a longer route that you take in order to avoid a problem or to visit a place: We had to make a detour around the flooded fields. 2 (NAmE) = DIVERSION

    diversion 3 [C] (BrE) (NAmE detour) a road or route that is used when the usual one is closed: Diversions will be signposted.
    So, there are two concepts in British English: diversions when the usual one is closed - and detours when you need to visit another place. But if a route is closed, there's indeed a problem you need to avoid, and detour would suit the context as well! Ehm...

    Another related concept is poikkeama with its English parallels, divergence, deviation, deflection...
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Thanks a lot, S! However, I need more time to go into it. It is intriguing though, or it might be interesting, to see whether both can/ must be considered linked, especially intrinsically linked. We 'd need to find out for example whether detour is indeed negative in many languages. (Detour, 1 above is strangely unclear: the definition refers to free will, whereas the example refers to being forced)

    I'd even feel like checking the underlying concepts or even hypotheses/ presuppositions, but er, not now...
     

    Lars H

    Senior Member
    "Omväg" is a rather neutral expression. it's a way around something. If it's positive or not depends on the circumstances. It could be a good thing on a beautiful day, but a nuisance if you are late for something.

    To say "omledning" sound a bit odd in Swedish, but Swedish police could "leda om" the traffic, meaning there would be an "omläggning" and I would be forced to take an "omväg" to reach my destination.
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    I am just returning to this point, as there seemed to be some disambiguation needed. If anyone is interested: is the concept unambiguous in your view and only negative (opposite of a short-cut, too long a way)? Or does it also refer to a path taken for fun, for pleasure ???
     

    Lars H

    Senior Member
    The overall norm is, I would guess, to always choose the shortest way to reach a goal. Hence, a detour is not favourable.

    "Ett träd låg över vägen så jag måste ta en omväg"
    (A tree lied across the road so I had to take a detour)

    But it is also correct to say

    "Jag var i närheten, så jag tog en omväg för att besöka..."
    (I was in the neighbourhood, so I took a detour to visit...)
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    I understand, great ! That reminds me: we'd use een ommetje maken(a little 'round road') for that, thus making clear we deliberately choose to make some kind of detour. (I am grateful for helping me realize this distinction !)
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    I guess 'rodear' has to do with 'round', and of course it is a natural way of avoiding a 'centre' that one cannot pass through, I suppose (as with 'ring roads'). The idea is often conveyed in these words (in my dialect it would be 'ommetoer'/ 'round tour').
     

    francisgranada

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    Could you explain the origin of the words, Francis ?
    kerülni - "to go round about", "to by-pass", to circumvent, to go around ...
    (this verb is used with many prefixes, that modify it's meaning)

    eltérni - to deviate, to diverge ... (intrans.)
    eltéríteni - to deviate, to diverge ... (trans.)
    el- is a prefix with the meaning of away
     
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