developped / developed ?

Bene2010

New Member
French
Hello,

I cannot find if "develop", at the past form, has double P or not.
It is : developped or developed ?
Thanks
 
  • Gwan

    Senior Member
    New Zealand, English
    Love the Google fight thing!
    Presumably people get confused because a double consonant usually produces a short vowel sound, like 'loped' vs. 'lopped' or 'hoped' vs 'hopped', whereas with 'developed' the vowel sound is short despite having only one p. (NB: I don't pronounce the vowels identically in 'developed' and 'lopped', but I still imagine this is why people frequently make this mistake.)
     

    Bene2010

    New Member
    French
    It can be a reason.
    That's right that in italian, the vowel before a double consonant is shorter than before only one.
     

    Loob

    Senior Member
    English UK
    The reason we don't double the "p" is that the stress is on the "e", not the "o":

    Stop - stopped

    Develop - developed.


    :)
     

    entangledbank

    Senior Member
    English - South-East England
    In English it has more to do with stress. The -p is doubled in some words in BrE: worshipped and kidnapped (and catnapped), because the final syllable has a secondary stress*. (In AmE these all have single -p-.) But the final syllable is unstressed in developed, galloped, and others, so it's never doubled (in proper printed books, that is).

    * Hm, not sure about worship. It might be better to say it's just a historical accident: it used to have a secondary stress there, at least.
     

    Bene2010

    New Member
    French
    The reason we don't double the "p" is that the stress is on the "e", not the "o":

    Stop - stopped

    Develop - developed.

    Thanks, I understand !
     

    grubble

    Senior Member
    British English
    I cannot find if "develop", at the past form, has double P or not.
    It is : developped or developed ?
    Thanks
    It is always "developed"

    If you do a Google search for "conjugate english" you will find websites such as these http://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C1GPMD_enGB321GB321&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=develop+conjugate#sclient=psy&hl=en&rlz=1C1GPMD_enGB321GB321&q=conjugate+english+&aq=0&aqi=g5&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=2ee2b439b550ea98

    Important: You must decide whether you want UK or American spelling and choose accordingly. It doesn't matter which you choose as long as you try to be consistent.
     
    Last edited:

    Gwan

    Senior Member
    New Zealand, English
    The reason we don't double the "p" is that the stress is on the "e", not the "o":

    Stop - stopped

    Develop - developed.


    :)
    Good point. But, while I'm obviously just speculating, I still think the double consonant thing might still be the reason why people make this mistake fairly often. :)
     

    CapnPrep

    Senior Member
    AmE
    That's why the web is not so good for not english sepaker !
    The Web is actually great for non-English-speakers, but as Gernot Back showed, you cannot find the answer by doing a single Google search. You have compare (at least) two different results and then decide.

    But for spelling questions, the old-fashioned approach is still the best approach: look in the dictionary. :) And nowadays, many dictionaries are available free on-line, and for most purposes they are much easier to use than paper dictionaries. Try this one, for example, and click on "Word forms". Another reason why the Web is so good.

    * Hm, not sure about worship. It might be better to say it's just a historical accident: it used to have a secondary stress there, at least.
    How do you know that?
     
    Last edited:

    Bene2010

    New Member
    French
    But for spelling questions, the old-fashioned approach is still the best approach: look in the dictionary. :) And nowadays, many dictionaries are available free on-line, and for most purposes they are much easier to use than paper dictionaries. Try this one, for example, and click on "Word forms". Another reason why the Web is so good.

    Of course ! I haven't thought to look at the verb declination.
    Thanks for all
     

    Einstein

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    the confusion comes from the french,
    Development is written "Developpement" with 2 p in french.

    :)
    Exactly, this is the first reason that came to mind.
    In general, as others have said, we double the consonant when the verb is a monosyllable (getting) or has the stress on the last syllable (forgetting), but not when the stress comes earlier (targeting, targeted).
    There are exceptions in BE, where the "l" is always doubled (levelled, modelling). This is done also with "worship" (worshipping, worshipper). This could be another reason for thinking there are two p's in "development".
     

    Olestra

    New Member
    English - Francophone Eastern Ontario
    the confusion comes from the french,
    Development is written "Developpement" with 2 p in french.
    Thanks for this! (I hope it is okay to resurrect threads. If not, I apologise and please do correct me!) I am an anglophone Canadian living in Vanier, Ontario. I double the "p" in "developing" all the time.

    I grew up in Ottawa in the Public Ottawa Catholic Separate School Board French Immersion System which was not very good (or rather incompletely funded and designed), and my French is disgracefully poor and barely usable even in emergencies; but I am sometimes surprised by how I notice a fair number of my spellings and pronunciations as clearly influenced by Franco-Ontarian and Quebecois French. I even wonder if it's the origin of how some people outside Canada seemed to often misunderstand what "Canadian raising" sounds like when it happens when they literally seemed to think some Canadians pronounced "about" as "uh-boot"--as if it was a joke or poorly inspired conjecture that went viral.
     

    PaulQ

    Senior Member
    UK
    English - England
    The OED informs that the word developing is relatively recent (1785) and has not been recorded with two 'p's.
    they literally seemed to think some Canadians pronounced "about" as "uh-boot"
    ... but Canadians do... :D
     

    Linterbug

    New Member
    English - England
    There are most definitely rules. Unfortunately most people aren't taught them, and coupled with various other influences, the lines have become blurred. One massive area of impact on our spelling and grammar has been internet usage, and Microsoft's 'Word'. This influence cannot be understated. Also many people do not know how to change their settings from US to British English - and even when you do, I have found Spellcheck to be a liability rather than a help, often continuing to bombard us with American spellings! I tell my students to check online dictionaries if they're unsure how to spell a word, rather than rely on Spellcheck. The rule here is that certain words have their consonants doubled in the British spelling when turned into gerunds. Examples: focussed (American: focused), worshipped (American: worshiped), targetted (American: targeted). The American spellings changed (can't remember the date) but was during a period when someone thought it was a good idea to 'simplify' spelling. Bill Bryson gives all the details in one of his books.
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    There are most definitely rules. Unfortunately most people aren't taught them, and coupled with various other influences, the lines have become blurred. One massive area of impact on our spelling and grammar has been internet usage, and Microsoft's 'Word'. This influence cannot be understated. Also many people do not know how to change their settings from US to British English - and even when you do, I have found Spellcheck to be a liability rather than a help, often continuing to bombard us with American spellings! I tell my students to check online dictionaries if they're unsure how to spell a word, rather than rely on Spellcheck. The rule here is that certain words have their consonants doubled in the British spelling when turned into gerunds. Examples: focussed (American: focused), worshipped (American: worshiped), targetted (American: targeted). The American spellings changed (can't remember the date) but was during a period when someone thought it was a good idea to 'simplify' spelling. Bill Bryson gives all the details in one of his books.
    Welcome! In this forum you will find lots of discussions about how and why AE and BE differ :)

    The bolded text in your post highlights the problem - some do and some don't. You can either make lists or spend some time explaining the stress rules and long and short vowels etc. Even then, it helps to know the pronunciation to see which rule to follow and if you are a learner, you may not have ever heard it.

    I would say the problem is with English (spelling) in general, and you highlight the fact that the problems differ somewhat in different versions of English. English in England has changed quite a bit since people started emigrating to N America and the English there has also changed but, well, independently:)
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    "Targeted" isn't a gerund, and that has been the standard spelling of the past participle in BE for more than 50 years (source: citations from BE publications in the OED).

    Edit
    Also, from the OED entry for "focus"
    Forms: Pples. focused, focusing; in the U.K. commonly, but irregularly, written focussed,
     
    Last edited:

    Einstein

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    As a Brit I would never write "targetted/targetting", "focussed/focussing" or "benefitted/benefitting", because these verbs are stressed earlier.
    Andygc, I don't get your point about "targeted"; of course it's not a gerund, but where the last letter is doubled it happens before all suffixes:
    -ing, -ed, -er and -est.
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    My point is that neither targeted nor focused are spelt targetted or focussed in BE. Focussed is simply wrong, and targetted is obsolete.
     

    Einstein

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    I don't think focussed or focussing is wrong. I do see it, and I have used it myself.

    See: focusing or focussing?
    Well, that discussion doesn't seem to be conclusive one way or the other. The problem here is that there are not many verbs ending with a single "s", so the rule is not so well-established as with other consonants.

    I was intrigued in another thread to see the opposite "mistake": "busing" with a single "s". The plural of "bus" is of course "buses", not "busses" (I don't know of any noun that doubles the last letter when forming the plural), but with the verb being a monosyllable, I'm sure "bussing" is right (otherwise it would tend to rhyme with "using").
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    I don't think focussed or focussing is wrong. I do see it, and I have used it myself.

    See: focusing or focussing?
    I have always used "focused". Perhaps I should have said "irregular" not "wrong" (as did my quotation of the OED). My first response here was to Linterbug, who wrote of her students, referred to gerunds when giving examples of past participles, and who appears to prefer to teach her students irregular and obsolete spellings. She also criticizes the BE dictionary that comes with Word - which does not continue
    to bombard us with American spellings!
    but gives us correct BE spellings.
     

    Afef Chaibi

    New Member
    Arabic
    We don't double the "p" because the letter "l" is not included in the last syllable. So we don't have a short vowel between 2 consonants in the same syllable.
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    We don't double the "p" because the letter "l" is not included in the last syllable. So we don't have a short vowel between 2 consonants in the same syllable.
    :confused:
    It is in my English. As already explained, the explanation lies in the stress pattern.
     

    natkretep

    Moderato con anima (English Only)
    English (Singapore/UK), basic Chinese
    Yes, that last syllable of the stem (ie the word without any inflections) needs to have a secondary stress before you double the consonant letter. In my accent, that last syllable has a neutral vowel /ə/ rather than the full vowel /ɒ/.

    This makes it different from, say, kidnap where I will double that last consonant letter (kidnapper, kidnapping). Although the stress is on the first syllable, the second syllable has a secondary stress, and is pronounced with a full vowel /a/ rather than /ə/.
     

    RM1(SS)

    Senior Member
    English - US (Midwest)
    I was intrigued in another thread to see the opposite "mistake": "busing" with a single "s". The plural of "bus" is of course "buses", not "busses" (I don't know of any noun that doubles the last letter when forming the plural), but with the verb being a monosyllable, I'm sure "bussing" is right (otherwise it would tend to rhyme with "using").
    busing -- participle of to bus
    bussing -- participle of to buss

    (Yes, I'm aware that the post I'm responding to is just shy of three years old.)
     

    natkretep

    Moderato con anima (English Only)
    English (Singapore/UK), basic Chinese
    busing -- participle of to bus
    bussing -- participle of to buss

    (Yes, I'm aware that the post I'm responding to is just shy of three years old.)
    I'm pretty sure bussing (sending by bus) is the normal BrE spelling. Collins Cobuild agrees:
    Word forms: plural buses, 3rd person singular present tense busses , present participle bussing , past tense, past participle bussed
    LANGUAGE NOTE: The plural form of the noun is buses. The third person singular of the verb is busses. American English uses the spellings buses, busing, bused for the verb.
    https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/bus
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    I'm pretty sure bussing (sending by bus) is the normal BrE spelling
    I agree. The form "busing" seems bizarre to me, and I wouldn't know how to pronounce it if I hadn't been told it's the participle of "to bus" in AE.
    (busy, business?) I note that Random House accepts both spellings for AE.
     

    kentix

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    There is no good way to spell it. Busing seems wrong but so does bussing. And since bussing means kissing, I think that busing distinguishes the two.
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    I doubt there's much risk of confusion. "The city has a policy of kissing children to school" - seems an unlikely misunderstanding. :D I can't remember anybody outside of 16th century poets using "buss", and how can you tell the difference when spoken?
     

    kentix

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    It's not completely unused in the 21st century.:)

    2017 - Then she leaned in and bussed him on the cheek for good measure. " The world needs more men like you, " she added

    2008 - Dismissed, Dozier stepped over, bussed Emily on the cheek, and paused to lean down and touch foreheads with...

    2007 - men who drank Manhattans and bussed pliant blonde waitresses on the sly.

    1997 - because he took me home, bussed me on the cheek, and never called again.
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    I can't remember anybody outside of 16th century poets using "buss"
    One thing I like about this forum is that statements like that are taken as a challenge, thus saving me the effort of searching for examples of recent usage. Especially when those examples clearly demonstrate how there is no chance at all of choosing the wrong meaning.

    men who drank Manhattans and transported pliant blonde waitresses on buses on the sly
    men who drank Manhattans and kissed pliant blonde waitresses on the sly

    But I really, genuinely don't mind that in AE the form "busing" is used.

    :D
     

    kentix

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    When I see the letter combination "buss" anywhere, my first thought is strictly and solely kissing. Obviously, if that doesn't work in context I can go to plan B (on the fly, subconsciously), and consider alternate meanings, just as for any other word in a specific context.

    So buss, bussed, bussing, busses are all forms of the word "buss" for me, not the word bus. They don't trigger the mental image of a bus.

    Bus, buses, busing, bused do trigger that mental image, because they are clearly based on the word bus.
     

    natkretep

    Moderato con anima (English Only)
    English (Singapore/UK), basic Chinese
    It does seem strange to me to make an exception with bus when the general rule is that if you have a word of one syllable with the short vowel and a single final consonant letter at the end, you double that when you add -ing (hence cutting, supping). We would all write pussing wound would be not, rather than pusing wound? (Or will you say pussing wound makes you think of cats?)
     
    Last edited:

    kentix

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    Like I said, I think neither looks "right". Bussing seems like too many esses and busing doesn't seem like enough. Maybe we need a special letter for that context like that German letter.

    For what it's worth, I think we do generally write the plural of plus as pluses.

    And surpluses and gases. Although gassing and gassed.

    To me buses looks more normal than busing and especially bused. But as I said, bussing and bussed is not an improvement. It looks like the root word buss, meaning kissing. There's no good answer for me.
     
    Last edited:
    < Previous | Next >
    Top