Devil's Advocate...

Masood

Senior Member
British English
Como se dice las siguientes frases en español?

1. To take a [point of view/stance/standpoint] on an issue
Adivino: Sacar un punto de vista en un tema

2. To argue against a standpoint by playing Devil's Advocate
Adivino: Exponer contra un punto de vista por ser el Abogado del diablo

3. To test the strength of an argument by arguing against it
Adivino: Probar la fuerza de un argumento por exponer al contrario

Gracias de antemano.
 
  • Lluna1977

    Senior Member
    Catalan / Spanish
    En la segunda frase yo más bien diría:
    Discutir un punto de vista haciendo el papel de abogado del diablo

    Y en la tercera:
    Probar la fuerza de un argumento defendiendo lo contrario

    Alguna sugerencia más??????
     

    cuchuflete

    Senior Member
    EEUU-inglés
    Good Morning Masood,

    Pardón the English; I've just awakened and the Spanish speaking neuronas haven't had their coffee yet. The problem you and Lluna may be ignoring is that of a literal translation that loses the meaning of the original, versus one that captures it, while violating (!?) the superficial accuracy of the literal translation.

    I'm new to this, and would thus ask help from Vicki and LauraN and others, but unless
    abogado del diablo carries the same symbolic meaning as the English catch phrase Devil's advocate, I would not use it.

    Devil's advocate means, simply, provacateur. In debate or conversation it denotes one who states a view specifically to evoke or stimulate a response. By 'playing devil's advocate' one is adopting a stance that is almost invariably not his own. The sole intent is to posit a starting point in an argument, and provoke a response based on agreement or disagreement, or at very least, further analysis of that stated viewpoint.
    In a rhetorical dispute, it may be akin to a novelist inviting a reader to 'suspend disbelief' and accept the premise that the novel, once entered, has its own internally valid set of facts, rules and logic.

    I don't know if 'abogado del diablo' may be a frase hecha with these connotations. If it is, then ignore all of the foregoing and pass the plate of crow.

    un saludo,
    Cuchu
     

    Tormenta

    Senior Member
    Argentina-Español
    cuchufléte said:
    Good Morning Masood,

    Pardón the English; I've just awakened and the Spanish speaking neuronas haven't had their coffee yet. The problem you and Lluna may be ignoring is that of a literal translation that loses the meaning of the original, versus one that captures it, while violating (!?) the superficial accuracy of the literal translation.

    I'm new to this, and would thus ask help from Vicki and LauraN and others, but unless
    abogado del diablo carries the same symbolic meaning as the English catch phrase Devil's advocate, I would not use it.

    Devil's advocate means, simply, provacateur. In debate or conversation it denotes one who states a view specifically to evoke or stimulate a response. By 'playing devil's advocate' one is adopting a stance that is almost invariably not his own. The sole intent is to posit a starting point in an argument, and provoke a response based on agreement or disagreement, or at very least, further analysis of that stated viewpoint.
    In a rhetorical dispute, it may be akin to a novelist inviting a reader to 'suspend disbelief' and accept the premise that the novel, once entered, has its own internally valid set of facts, rules and logic.

    I don't know if 'abogado del diablo' may be a frase hecha with these connotations. If it is, then ignore all of the foregoing and pass the plate of crow.

    un saludo,
    Cuchu


    Sí, "abogado del diablo" es una frase hecha, por lo menos en el "nuevo mundo". Tiene el mismo significado que "Devil's Advocate".
    Hace algún tiempo, había un programa de tv con ese nombre "Abogado del Diablo". Los debates eran muy interesantes.

    Tormenta
    :)
     

    esance

    Senior Member
    Masood said:
    Como se dice las siguientes frases en español?

    1. To take a [point of view/stance/standpoint] on an issue
    Adivino: Sacar un punto de vista en un tema

    "Sacar", que te parece "tener" o "declinarse por"

    2. To argue against a standpoint by playing Devil's Advocate
    Adivino: Exponer contra un punto de vista por ser el Abogado del diablo

    Argumentar contra un punto de vista haciendo de abogado del diablo

    3. To test the strength of an argument by arguing against it
    Adivino: Probar la fuerza de un argumento por exponer al contrario

    Comprobar la fuerza de un argumento para (poder) oponerse

    Gracias de antemano.
    Espero que sirva!!

    Any suggestions?
     

    cuchuflete

    Senior Member
    EEUU-inglés
    Tormenta said:
    Sí, "abogado del diablo" es una frase hecha, por lo menos en el "nuevo mundo". Tiene el mismo significado que "Devil's Advocate".
    Hace algún tiempo, había un programa de tv con ese nombre "Abogado del Diablo". Los debates eran muy interesantes.

    Tormenta
    :)
    Gracias Tormenta,

    Haz el favor de pasarme el sal. I am going to be eating a lot of crow!

    (To eat crow= to eat one's words=confesar en público que uno ha dicho algo equivocado.)

    saludos,
    Cuchu
     

    magoarcano

    New Member
    Spanish/Español
    Este es un tema viejo, pero igualmente voy a dar mi opinión

    1. To take a [point of view/stance/standpoint] on an issue
    Obtener un punto de vista sobre algún tema

    2. To argue against a standpoint by playing Devil's Advocate
    Exponer contra un punto de vista como si fuera el Abogado del diablo

    3. To test the strength of an argument by arguing against it
    Probar (o medir) la fuerza de un argumento argumentando contra él

    Saludos!
     

    ORL

    Senior Member
    Spanish/Argentina
    1. To take a [point of view/stance/standpoint] on an issue
    Tomar posición sobre un tema.

    2. To argue against a standpoint by playing Devil's Advocate
    Contraargumentar jugando el rol de abogado del diablo.

    El término abogado del diablo se aplica por extensión a personas que defienden una posición en la que no necesariamente creen, o a quienes presentan a otro debatiente un argumento contra una posición en la que sí creen. Este proceso permite comprobar la calidad del argumento original e identificar las debilidades de su defensa.

    3. To test the strength of an argument by arguing against it
    Poner a prueba la contundencia de un argumento por medio de un contraargumento.

    El abogado del diablo (en latín advocatus diaboli) o promotor de la fe (en latín Promotor Fidei) es el apelativo popular con el que se alude al procurador fiscal en los antiguos juicios o procesos de canonización de la Iglesia Católica. Su denominación desde las reformas de 1983 es promotor de la justicia (promotor iustitiae).
     

    cero

    Senior Member
    North American English
    Como se dice las siguientes frases en español?

    1. To take a [point of view/stance/standpoint] on an issue
    Adivino: Sacar un punto de vista en un tema

    2. To argue against a standpoint by playing Devil's Advocate
    Adivino: Exponer contra un punto de vista por ser el Abogado del diablo

    3. To test the strength of an argument by arguing against it
    Adivino: Probar la fuerza de un argumento por exponer al contrario

    Gracias de antemano.
    Doesn't the Spanish speaking world also use the phrase Devil's disciple? I can't find the phrase on wordreference!!!
     

    Severian79

    Member
    Spanish
    With all due respect I think some of the translations are inaccurate. Here is how I would translate them

    1. To take a [point of view/stance/standpoint] on an issue : Tomar (o asumir) un punto de vista respecto a un asunto

    2. To argue against a standpoint by playing Devil's Advocate : Discutir (o argumentar) contra un punto de vista haciendo de abogado del diablo.

    3. To test the strength of an argument by arguing against it: Poner a prueba la fuerza de un argumento discutiendo en su contra
     
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