die Reihe der in der Verfassung interessierten Familien

Jean-Pierre Le Pan

Member
English UK
Bitte, können Sie dieses Ausdruck von Mayer, E.W., Machiavellis Geschichtsauffassung und sein Begriff virtù (München 1912), in Englisch übersetzen?:

'die Reihe der in der Verfassung interessierten Familien'.

Vielen Dank, nogmals.
 
  • Ief

    Senior Member
    ...the number of families taking part of the constution....

    context please for a more accurate translation. I suspect families aren't families as we know them and an "Interesse" in ancient german wasn't something like curiosity but mostly an interest of a capital or something. So it could mean something like the number of clans, that profitate from the constitution?
     

    Jean-Pierre Le Pan

    Member
    English UK
    Hi to both Ief and Demiurg: That's half my problem. It's an enticing bit loaned from Mayer in an Italian work by Condorelli. I have transcribed the portion: I do hope it provides a clue. Much obliged! [I will provide Italian translation, if required.] The Italian work is about Machiavelli's use of 'stato' during which Condorelli retrieves the view of Mayer, among others.

    “II Mayer (1) invece parla di quattro significati distinti. Li elenco con lo stesso ordine usato dall’A. aggiungendo, per dare un’idea più esatta dell' opinione dell'autore, per ogni signiflcato uno degli esempi da lui citato.

    “1.°. Stato usato come concetto geografico (als geografischer Begriff) es. «Lo stato vostro si trova diviso in Città, contado et distrecto (luogo riportato dal Villari in N. M. ed i suoi tempi, Vol. I, 655).

    “2.°. Manca in Machiavelli Ia significazione di stato come di una formazione politica contnuamente divenente: stato generalmente = forma di costituzione (Verfassungsform) es. «stati che ha avuti quella città dal 1393 in qua » (Discorso sopra il riformare lo stato di Firenze).

    “3.°. Raramente stato = insieme delle famiglle interessate nella costituzione (die Reihe der in der Verfassung interessierten Familien) es, « Il nuovo stato ebbe speciale fiducia a Cosimo dei Pazzi ed a Francesco Pepi » . (Op. II, 378).”

    Condorelli, G (1923) ‘Per la storia del nome ‘stato’ (il nome ‘stato’ in Machiavelli)’ Archivo Giuridico Quarta Serie, Volume V, LXXXIX (1923), 223-35; Archivo Giuridico Quarta Serie, Volume VI, XC (1923), 77-112. [Composed during March 1921, at Catania, Sicily.], 87.
     

    Demiurg

    Senior Member
    German
    I found the book here: Machiavellis Geschichtsauffassung und sein Begriff virtù.

    The complete sentence reads:
    Seltener als bei Guicciardini findet sich bei Machiavelli in »stato« die Reihe der an der Verfassung interessierten Familien zusammengefaßt; so etwa in der Steigerung: die Signorie, der stato, die ganze Stadt.
    die Reihe der an der Verfassung interessierten Familien: the group of families interested in the constitution
     

    Jean-Pierre Le Pan

    Member
    English UK
    Hi Demiurg,
    Superb detective work! Thank you very much. Could you explain why there are two 'ders'? Is it possible that the first 'der' was an older 'da' for 'there'?
    Thank so so much!
     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    Demiurg

    Senior Member
    German
    Could you explain why there are two 'ders'? Is it possible that the first 'der' was an older 'da' for 'there'?
    No. The first "der" is genitive and corresponds to "of": die Reihe der Familien = the group of families.
    The second "der" is dative and corresponds to "the": an der Verfassung = in the constitution.
     
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