difference between "to hear" and "to listen"

  • Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    słyszeć - to hear
    1. słyszę
    2. słyszysz
    3. słyszy
    1. słyszymy
    2. słyszycie
    3. słyszą

    słuchać - to listen
    1. słucham
    2. słuchasz
    3. słucha
    1. słuchamy
    2. słuchacie
    3. słuchają

    I think I got them right but wait for our natives, just in case. :)

    Myslím, že to mám dobře, ale pro jistotu počkej na rodilé mluvčí. :)

    Jana
    http://www.dict.pl/plen?word=s%C5%82ysze%C4%87&lang=EN
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    Myślę, że rozumiesz Jana's Czech. ;)
    Or:
    Myślę, że rozumiesz czeski Jany/Janeczki. :)


    If drei_lengua were interested the perteit paradigm as well (masculine/ feminin):
    słyszałem/ słyszałam
    słyszałeś/ słyszałaś
    słyszał
    słyszała
    słyszało
    słyszeliśmy/ słyszałyśmy
    słyszeliście (verile)
    słyszałyście (nonverile)

    słuchałem/ słuchałam
    słuchałeś/ słuchałaś
    słuchał
    słuchała
    słuchało
    słuchaliśmy/ słuchałyśmy
    słuchaliście/ słuchałyśmy
    słuchali (verile)
    słuchały (nonverile)
     

    cajzl

    Senior Member
    Czech
    słyszałem / słyszałam / słyszałom (masculine / feminine / neuter):
    słyszałeś / słyszałaś / słyszałoś
    słyszał / słyszała / słyszało

    słyszeliśmy/ słyszałyśmy
    słyszeliście / słyszałyście
    słyszeli (virile) / słyszały (nonvirile)


    słuchałem / słuchałam / słuchałom
    słuchałeś / słuchałaś / słuchałoś
    słuchał / słuchała / słuchało

    słuchaliśmy/ słuchałyśmy
    słuchaliście/ słuchałyście
    słuchali / słuchały
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    słyszałem / słyszałam / słyszałom (masculine / feminine / neuter):
    słyszałeś / słyszałaś / słyszałoś
    słyszał / słyszała / słyszało

    słyszeliśmy/ słyszałyśmy
    słyszeliście / słyszałyście
    słyszeli (virile) / słyszały (nonvirile)


    słuchałem / słuchałam / słuchałom
    słuchałeś / słuchałaś / słuchałoś
    słuchał / słuchała / słuchało

    słuchaliśmy/ słuchałyśmy
    słuchaliście/ słuchałyście
    słuchali / słuchały
    The corssed out words are worng, no one would ever use them. Why did you repeat my answer?:confused:
     

    cajzl

    Senior Member
    Czech
    Compare your and my answer. Your answer is incomplete (missing słuchałyście, słyszeli and słyszały).
     

    cajzl

    Senior Member
    Czech
    As for słuchałom/słuchałoś, etc.:

    Słoneczko drogie, co wczoraj robiłoś – Świeciłom dzień cały, suszyłom rosę i łzy dziecięce. A ty, lato, co robiłoś? – Wyzłacałom kłosy zbóż, rumieniłom jabłka w sadach.

    Slunéčko drahé, co jsi včera dělalo? - Svítilo jsem celičký den, sušilo jsem rosu i dětské slzy. A ty, léto, cos dělalo? - Zlatilo jsem klasy obilí, ruměnilo jsem jablka v sadech.

    Never say never.
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    As for słuchałom/słuchałoś, etc.:

    Słoneczko drogie, co wczoraj robiłoś – Świeciłom dzień cały, suszyłom rosę i łzy dziecięce. A ty, lato, co robiłoś? – Wyzłacałom kłosy zbóż, rumieniłom jabłka w sadach.

    Slunéčko drahé, co jsi včera dělalo? - Svítilo jsem celičký den, sušilo jsem rosu i dětské slzy. A ty, léto, cos dělalo? - Zlatilo jsem klasy obilí, ruměnilo jsem jablka v sadech.

    Never say never.
    Good point it's good I didn’t say never :p :D ;).

    As far as the first and second person of the neuter gender is concerned using personification for a neuter subject you apply personal forms of verbs too (picking gender according to your preference).

    I don’t know where you found the example you gave but it sounds strange and wrong to me, the only thing I could tell about it is that it sounds a little góral-like dialect which is not used in Poland except for one area—Tatra mountains (I guess they live in Slovak too). As far as I can remember their language is a blend of some Slavic languages.
    The other thing is that authors of poetry/prose sometimes make up neologisms which you can came across nowhere but in their works and outside them they are considered as I abovementioned.


    True point about the paradigm I did not notice that. :(
     

    cajzl

    Senior Member
    Czech
    Maybe it sounds strange to you as you usually do not speak with inanimate things (of the neuter gender).

    In the Czech languagage we usually do not say:

    Slunce, co jsi (= cos) dělal? (Słońce, coś robił?)
    or
    Slunce, co jsi dělala? (Słońce, coś robiła?)

    If the Sun is not personified (humanlike), the only possibility (common in the fables, legends,...) is:

    Slunce, co jsi dělalo? (as the sun is neuter)

    Well, can you translate into Polish the following sentences (using the preterite/past tense)?

    The window has been broken. - Window, why has you been broken?

    Okno se rozbilo. - Okno, proč ses rozbilo?
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    I remember I heard a song in Polish and the author was singing about the sun that was personified, he used masculine gender for verbs.

    I never thought about neutral gender verbs in past tense, the forms you gave seem to be correct and logical from a grammatical point of view (at least I'd form them as you did) but if you look at them from a semantical and common usage stand point they don't make much sense.:confused:

    The thing with literature and any other artistic forms is a different cup of tea since here you are allowed to play with words and use forms that are not used in everyday language.

    As far as your sentence is concerned is it ...why has it been... or ...why have you been broken... ?
    Apart from that I cannot imagine a situation in which I would make such conversation. :D

    Maybe it sounds strange to you as you usually do not speak with inanimate things (of the neuter gender).

    In the Czech languagage we usually do not say:

    Slunce, co jsi (= cos) dělal? (Słońce, coś robił?)
    or
    Slunce, co jsi dělala? (Słońce, coś robiła?)

    If the Sun is not personified (humanlike), the only possibility (common in the fables, legends,...) is:

    Slunce, co jsi dělalo? (as the sun is neuter)

    Well, can you translate into Polish the following sentences (using the preterite/past tense)?

    The window has been broken. - Window, why has you been broken?

    Okno se rozbilo. - Okno, proč ses rozbilo?
     

    cajzl

    Senior Member
    Czech
    Apart from that I cannot imagine a situation in which I would make such conversation. :D
    It is not your imagination, which is in question here, but the ability of the Polish language to express such dialogues.
    Imagine the following conversation:

    The princess asked: - Mirror, why did you lie to me? -
    The mirror answered: - I did not lie to you. -

    Princezna se zeptala: "Zrcadlo, proč jsi mi lhalo?
    Zrcadlo odpovědělo: "Já jsem ti nelhalo.
     

    Marga H

    Senior Member
    Poland,Polish
    cajzl,in such situations(which are really rare)you can say:
    coś ty zrobiło? not only słoneczko but for instance dziecko (=child)
    but never : ty zrobiłoś or ja zrobiłoś.
    Regards.
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    The sentence would have to be:

    Window, why have you been broken?

    or more precisely

    Window, why hast thou been broken?

    Apart from that I cannot imagine a situation in which I would make such conversation. :D


    It is not your imagination but the ability of the Polish language to express such dialogue, which is in question here.
    Imagine a little child talking to an inanimate thing of the neuter gender.
    It is not your imagination, which is in question here, but the ability of the Polish language to express such dialogues.
    Imagine the following conversation:

    The princess asked: - Mirror, why did you lie to me? -
    The mirror answered: - I did not lie to you. -

    Princezna se zeptala: "Zrcadlo, proč jsi mi lhalo?
    Zrcadlo odpovědělo: "Já jsem ti nelhalo.
    I can see you changed a little your post, nevertheless, I answered the previous version of it (as I copied it to my computer).

    Let me start from the end of your post.

    The language spoken by children is different form the one used by adults as they are on the way of language acquisition, their way of thinking and expressing themselves differs considerably. In many cases they try to form verbs on a basis of analogy since they haven’t already gained some sort of entrenchment as adults have, i.e. the mature speakers use the language acquired during their life and if something was not used because it is widely considered as erroneous (even though sometimes grammatically plausible)they don’t use it. This is not true about children—they sometimes formulate their own ways of getting across abandoning them as they grow since the forms they use don’t appear in language that surrounds them. Such contrast of occurrence of one form is the evidence of non-occurrence of the one that might have been used but it wasn’t because it isn’t included in the norm of vast majority of speakers.
    And if something is out of use since it’s bizarre—people give some blank looks to these who break out and use awkward vocabulary. Anyway, I didn’t hear children forming 1st or 2nd person neuter gender verbs in past tense (but I don’t hang out a lot with them either :)).

    Perhaps it’s not about my imagination but IMO it is also about palatability and I already expressed my opinion on the forms proposed by you. I would like to point out one more thing, namely, the fact that there are hundreds if not thousands of unuttered words in each, I think, language to be used in certain circumstances and perhaps someone (employing standard Polish) would use someday the forms you brought up—never say never ;). I, reading some Polish books, didn’t come them across but maybe someone did—I would be interested to see some examples.

    Taking your sentence into consideration:
    I would use different structure for the abovementioned reasons.
    Okienko, dlaczego jesteś potłuczone.

    As for your second form of the post, I think there is no such part in Polish version of this fairytell.

    cajzl,in such situations(which are really rare)you can say:
    coś ty zrobiło? not only słoneczko but for instance dziecko (=child)
    but never : ty zrobiłoś or ja zrobiłoś.
    Regards.
    This also came to my mind when I was mulling over the problem, I have some vague impression that I heard also: dziecko coś ty narobił(a) (depending on the sex of a child) but I am really not sure about that:confused:--did you hear it?
     

    symbolt

    Member
    Polish / Poland
    OK OK, verbose entrenchment, etc. But also, cajzl: we do talk to inanimate objects in Polish, though not very often. From what you say I take it that it's common practice in Chech to muse over the breaking of a window in the vocative, but sadly, it is not so in Polish. However, even though we do talk to inanimate objects in Polish, and the third person singular form is ok, inanimate objects rarely answer, and that's why forms such as "rozbiłom sie bo chciałom" are not encountered very often. Also, since they don't answer, we don't waste time asking, and that's where the absence of the second person comes from, as it is most often used if you want to engage the interlocutor in conversation (Rozbiłoś się? Ano tak.). Thomas1's uncertainty as to the correctness of the third person singular form is, I think, due to the fact that in the example quoted it is used in an interrogative, and thus, the situational context's oddness projects onto the form; it is, of course, the norm to use the past neuuter in statements, e.g. rozbiło się okno. ;)
     
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