Diosdado, Dieudonné, Diodato

Cenzontle

Senior Member
English, U.S.
In English, the compound adjective "God-given" is the product of a somewhat productive process that joins an agent ("God" in this case) with a past, or passive, participle ("given"). Others like it include "hand-written", "coin-operated", "worker-owned", "menu-driven", "government-mandated",... It seems to work especially well with weather phenomena: "rain-soaked", "wind-damaged", "sun-dried", "snow-covered", "fog-bound".
Is this construction available in Germanic languages generally, or is it unique to English?

The names Diosdado, Dieudonné, and Diodato—in Spanish, French, and Italian respectively—seem to be formed on the same basis, but, to my knowledge, there are no other instances of this construction in Romance languages. How did this name come to be used in these languages?
 
  • AndrasBP

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    The names Diosdado, Dieudonné, and Diodato—in Spanish, French, and Italian respectively—seem to be formed on the same basis, but, to my knowledge, there are no other instances of this construction in Romance languages. How did this name come to be used in these languages?
    The Romance forms might all be calques from Greek Θεόδωρος (Theódoros) > Theodore.
    Just a guess.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Sanskrit देवदत्त(स्) dēvadatta(-s) is an adjective with identical meaning – 'god-given'; it's been also used as a name (also f. dēvadattā).

    As a male name, written as above but pronounced ~deodatt/~devdatt, it's used in Hindi and in at least some other Indic languages.
     

    Vukabular

    Senior Member
    Serbian
    Maybe from Serbian:
    adjectives:
    dat m. - dato n. - data f. ("given")
    dan m. - dano n. dana f. ("given")
    noun: dar m. ("gift")
    verbs: dati, darivati
    Derived names: Bogdan ("God-given"), Božidar ("gift from God"), Darko ("gift")
     

    apmoy70

    Senior Member
    Greek
    The Romance forms might all be calques from Greek Θεόδωρος (Theódoros) > Theodore.
    Just a guess.
    I think the Greek equivalent is:
    «Θεόδοτος» (Theόdotos), «Θεοδοσία» (Theodosίa).
    This first name comes from the adjective «θεόδοτος, -τη, -το» [θeˈɔðɔtɔs] (masc.), [θeˈɔðɔti] (fem.), [θeˈɔðɔtɔ] (neut.), but the one used in the vernacular is «θεόσταλτος, -τη, -το» [θeˈɔstaltɔs] (masc.), [θeˈɔstalti] (fem.), [θeˈɔstaltɔ] (neut.) --> god-sent (from «στέλνω» [ˈstelnɔ] --> to send).
    The adjective «θεόδοτος» has also produced the first name for females «Θεοδότη» [θeɔˈðɔti]

    Apologies for my late edition
     
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    fdb

    Senior Member
    French (France)
    Dieudonné is like Θεόδοτος and like dēvadatta- in the sense that they are formed from a participle preceded by the stem of a noun indicating the agent of the participle: “by (a) god given”.

    On the other hand Θεόδωρος is formed from two nouns in a genitival compound: “(a) god’s gift”.
     
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    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Dieudonné is like Θεόδοτος and like dēvadatta- in the sense that they are formed from a participle preceded by the stem of a noun indicating the agent of the participle: “by (a) god given”.
    On the same pattern, Persian/Urdu has the noun/adj./proper name خداداد xudā-dād خدا بخش xudā-baxsh and Punjabi n./adj./proper name اللہ دتّا allā-dittā;
    On the other hand Θεόδωρος is formed from two nouns in a genitival compound: “(a) god’s gift”.
    Can خداداد xudā-dād (or Baghdad for that matter) be falling under both of these categories?

    Romance languages have been mentioned; in Latin it's Deodatus. I saw it used as a pseudonym in a 17th Century book so I'm not sure whether it is Classic or Vulgar Latin or possibly, a later neologism.
     

    Vukabular

    Senior Member
    Serbian
    Serbian:
    div ("god, colossus, good giant" - džin is a bad giant) >> divno ("great, lovely, delightful, adorable") >> diviti ("to admire") >> divota ("splendor")...
    duh ("spirit, soul, ghost")
    dah ("breath") >> nadahnuti ("inspire, inspirit") >> disati ("to breath")
    duvati (to blow")

    PIE:
    *diw- (zero-grade) >> *deywós ("god") >> Anatolian: *diu- ("daylight god") >> Lycian: ziw >>Lydian: Divi >> Luwian: tiwat ("a sun god") >> Balto-Slavic: *deiwas >> Celtic: *deiwos >> Germanic: *Tīwaz >> Indo-Iranian: *daywás >> Italic: *deiwos >> Welsh duw ("god") >> Persian دیو‎ (div, “demon”) >> English: divinity...

    The late Old Latin form *dẹ̄vos regularly lost its -v- before a rounded vowel >> deus >> Ancient Greek Ζεύς (Zeús), Διεύς (Dieús), θεός (theós)...
     

    Cenzontle

    Senior Member
    English, U.S.
    So, is the construction productive in Greek, Sanskrit, Serbian, or Persian (but not the Romance languages)?
    Which languages have translated "God-given" from another source, but do not themselves form compounds in the same way?
     

    Rocko!

    Senior Member
    Español - México
    So, is the construction productive in Greek, Sanskrit, Serbian, or Persian (but not the Romance languages)?
    Which languages have translated "God-given" from another source, but do not themselves form compounds in the same way?
    I don't know about other languages but in Spanish the name "Diosdado" comes from the Hebrew word for "Jonathan" (Diosdado es aquel al que Dios entregó como regalo divino; un don que Dios concedió; un don de Dios. El nombre significa que el que nació es un regalo de Dios)
    I don´t know what is the Hebrew word for Jonathan.
     
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    fdb

    Senior Member
    French (France)
    yōnāṯān means „Yahu has given”. It is a sentence-name (subject + verb) and as such different from those discussed here, which are nominal compounds (noun + noun or participle).
     

    Rocko!

    Senior Member
    Español - México
    yōnāṯān means „Yahu has given”. It is a sentence-name (subject + verb) and as such different from those discussed here, which are nominal compounds (noun + noun or participle).
    The word "dado" is a participle.
    Anyway, the name "Diosdado" seems to come from the biblical name Jonathan.
    The next picture is a screenshot of an old Bible of the year 1602 by Cipriano de Valera:

    Disdado.PNG
     

    Vukabular

    Senior Member
    Serbian
    dios (Spanish 'god') << deus (Latin 'god, deity') << deiuos (Old Latin 'god, deity') << deiwos (P- Italic 'god, deity') << deywós (PIE 'god') << dyew (PIE 'sky, heaven') << diw (zero-grade) = div (Serbian: 'great man', 'a mythological being of human form', 'god', 'diety')

    Θεό Theó (Greek 'god') << θεός theós (Ancient Greek 'god, diety') << tʰehós (P-Hellenic 'god, diety') << dʰéh₁s (PIE 'god, diety') << dʰeh₁ (PIE 'to do, put, place')??? = duh (Serbian 'spirit, soul, ghost')

    Jonathan << Ionathan << YHWH

    Jews never pronounce YHWH but instead read Adonai ("My Lord")

    The Vulgate used Dominus ("The Lord") and most English translations of the Bible write "the Lord" for YHWH

    All surviving Christian-era manuscripts use Kyrios (Κυριος, "Lord") or very occasionally Theos [Θεος, "God"]

    "YHWH" was translated into Greek from 3rd century CE as kyrios and theos.
     

    Rocko!

    Senior Member
    Español - México
    Don't you think the science of linguistics might have made some progress since 1602?
    I don't know what are you talking about. Names are just names, with some meaning in them, of course.
     

    Cenzontle

    Senior Member
    English, U.S.
    What languages, besides English, have a productive morphological process
    to make a compound adjective out of an agent plus a passive participle, as in "coin-operated", "menu-driven", "godforsaken", etc.?
    I infer from the comment by sound shift (#3 above) that this construction is available in two other Germanic languages,
    namely Dutch and German.
    If the Romance names "Diosdado" etc. are calques on a Greek form, then is the process productive in Greek,
    or did Greek borrow the form—just for "God-given"—from another language?
    Have I made my question clear?
     

    AndrasBP

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    What languages, besides English, have a productive morphological process
    to make a compound adjective out of an agent plus a passive participle, as in "coin-operated", "menu-driven", "godforsaken", etc.?
    In Hungarian it's not as productive as in English, but we have lots of adjectives of this type, though most of them sound slightly archaic or literary now:

    istenverte - "god-beaten"
    ebadta - "dog-given" (= good-for-nothing)
    napsütötte - "sun-shone"
    egérrágta - "mouse-chewed"
    madárlátta - "bird-seen" (= used for leftover bread taken home from field work or a long trip)
    szélfútta - "wind-blown"
     
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    Circunflejo

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Castilla
    The names Diosdado, Dieudonné, and Diodato—in Spanish, French, and Italian respectively—seem to be formed on the same basis, but, to my knowledge, there are no other instances of this construction in Romance languages.
    Spanish inherited from Latin some words that may fit here etymologically. For example, manuscrito (from Latin manuscriptus; hand-written) or genuflexo (for Latin genuflexus; knee bend) but the productive language would be Latin; not Spanish (in fact, genu is used just as a root in Spanish; not alone).
     

    Rocko!

    Senior Member
    Español - México
    It must have been a productive morphological process in Spanish because there was already the Spanish name "Theodosio" from the old Latin and Greek Theodosius, that means the same as the "modern" Diosdado.

    There is a very old Spanish book of 1565 that contains the name Adeodato, but this name was not adopted either by Spaniards.
    Historia pontifical y catholica... (1565), by Gonzalo Illescas:

    adeodato.PNG


    And there's another book of 1715, Relacin de la pompa funeral... (1715), by Blas Antonio Alvarez, that contains the "A Deo datus" as a nickname for a king but, again, this name was not adopted either by Spaniards.

    luis.PNG

    ______ _____________ ______________
    luis2.PNG


    So, I think that "Diosdado" is a name adopted by Spaniardas that joined the words "Dios" and "dado", because they were inspired by the biblical translation of Jonathan made by Cipriano de Valera: Dios dado → Diosdado.

    This word "Diosdado" has no real meaning today.
     
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