do not make any aggressive action towards the Americans

Discussion in 'Русский (Russian)' started by Kahless, Jan 1, 2008.

  1. Kahless Member

    I am writing my debut novel and I need some sentences translated from English to Russian. I don't want to trust in Babel fish, and the guy that was translating for me is unavailable. I will add surrounding text to put this in context, putting the text I want translated in red. Thank you in advance.

    "I want to speak with my son."
    I knew the test now was whether or not he believed the charade I was about to pull off. I didn’t want the battle here, because even if we proved better in battle, we would no doubt lose some matches, and their snipers would take out any of our men airborne, which is one thing I was trying to avoid.
    "Ok, let me patch you through to the tank that has him." I waited a half a minute and announced, "here he is." I brought up my voice translator program.
    "Aleksei, how are you?"
    I spoke in the microphone. "I am fine, sir."
    "Col. Karlov, we have returned your slain pilots under the provisions of the accord and we will return home now in peace.
    On the open frequency he spoke in Russian. "All Soviet pilots, do not make any aggressive action towards the Americans, let them pass."

    in another context later

    "He spoke to me, he exclaimed!"
    I opened my translator program as I turned to leave. I spoke into the microphone, which was then translated into his son’s voice. "I believe my Russian is clean now. Even you didn't recognize my accent."

    and finally the last translation

    There was a loud voice speaking English with a strong Russian accent. "This is Lt. Col. Veronin. All Russian pilots cease hostilities against the Americans immediately!"
    I was not sure what was happening. Our reinforcements were close, but he could have killed me in my vulnerable state. Certainly that would have been considered a good career move.

    Thank you very much for any help.
  2. Michael_Boy Member

    Here you go
  3. Kahless Member

    Thanx, I ran the translation you were unsure of Russian to english back through babel fish and it seems to be right. (not that I would trust it, but it agreed with you)

    If you would like credit in my novel for the translations, email ne your full name.

  4. Maroseika Moderator

    Several correction, if you do not mind.
    1. Russians cannot address to each other "Sir" (сэр). Besides, unlike American army they are not obliged to end each and every phrase with "Sir".
    2. Karlov and Veronin cannot be Russian surnames, or at least sound very exotic.
    3. Flying control officer cannot address to the pilots "Soviet pilots". He is in the permanent radio contact with them and they know who is he. Otherwise they would not obey him. More natural seems "Всем бортам" (however I'm afraid this is civil term, not military.
    4. Alexey in Russian is Алексей (not Алекс).
    5. Veronin's rank is подполковник (Lt.-Col). However it's quite impossible for any Soviet officer to declare his name and rank over the radio. He would have his own call sign and use only it (as well as all the pilots).
    6. Soviet officer cannot say "Russian pilots". In the USSR Russian meant "Russian" (in contrast to the hundreds of other Soviet nationalities). He also cannot address to them "Soviet pilots" unless at the political meeting.
    7. More natural is to call Americans "enemy" - it's quite neutral term in the context of the meeting in the air.

    My variant of Russian text:
    "Aleksei, how are you?"
    I am fine, sir."
    Алексей, ты как?
    Все в порядке.
    Все в порядке, товарищ полковник (... comrade colonel).
    "All Soviet pilots, do not make any aggressive action towards the Americans, let them pass."
    Всем бортам (all boards), не допускать агрессивных действий по отношению к противнику (towards enemy), пропустить их. (here I suggest to use infinitive in Russian which is peculiar to Russian military language).
    "I believe my Russian is clean now. Even you didn't recognize my accent."
    По-моему, я теперь говорю по-русски вполне чисто. Даже ты не заметил акцента.
    "This is Lt. Col. Veronin. All Russian pilots cease hostilities against the Americans immediately!"
    Это подполковник Веронин. (I suggest you to think about another variant, without names). Всем бортам, немедленно прекратить агрессивные действия по отношению к противнику (enemy).
  5. Kahless Member

    Ok, is are not Veronin and Karlov both Russian surnames? Or at least from Soviet peoples?

    Russians cannot address to each other "Sir" How would a Soviet subordinate officer speak to a superior?

    In the context stated Veronin wanted both his pilots and the American's to know he was ordering them to stand down, so the fighting would stop on both sides. The benefit was also for the Americans to understand who was commanding the halt of the Soviet agressions. (note he was broadcasting in english)

    He also cannot address to them "Soviet pilots". Then how would he address his men over a loudpseaker which both the Americans and his men would understand?

  6. Michael_Boy Member

    Why Veronin and Karlov can't be russian surnames???And how does it matter even if they are not russian??There are a lot of different surnames in Russia and if you are Veronin does it mean your are not russian?You have no point.
    I agree about this Sir..Sounds weird...
  7. Michael_Boy Member

    1. It depends who he is speaking to.
    2.I think it's fine.Soviet pilots?????What's wrong with that????I've heard it all the time:in movies,in school books etc....
  8. Maroseika Moderator

    Well, formally both have Russian surname siffixes "-in", but the roots are not Russian. Therefore both surnames do not sound Russian. This is what is always so funny in the American movies about Soviet officers, gangsters, etc... In fact in the most cases this suffix is added to the Russian names or words. Sometimes it's rather hard to identify this word, but anyway it either sounds Russian or is well known as Russian surname.
    Besides, same suffix is used in the surnames of the people of the former Middle Asian Soviet Republics - Uzbecs, Tajics, etc. Before 1917 they did not use surnames and therefore their surnames are formed according to the Russian model.
    Karl can be Russian name, but originally it's German and that's why such surname as Karlov doesn't exist or is at least very rare and sounds pretty strange. As for Veronin < Veron/Verona it has nothing to do with any Russian name or word.
    Comrade + rank (товарищ +...)

    In this case I guess that colonel would rather use the name of his position, such as "commander of ..." Who is colonel Veronin, by the way? Commander of aircraft regiment or something like that?
    You see, I don't think it could have any sense to mention his surname in the broadcast, because Americans could not know it - surnames of the Russian officers, especially of the frontier troops, were a military secret in the USSR.

    Do American pilots understand Russian in your novel? I'm sure they have to do, this was an important element of their training - understanding basic Russian commands and phrases. Therefore the best way was to address the pilots using their board numbers - American pilots saw Soviet aircrafts and knew their numbers. Or he could you something like "all aircrafts in the square number 52-40" (for example).
  9. Michael_Boy Member

    Ok I'm out of here.This gets crazy too much information for me....
  10. Maroseika Moderator

    Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I understand Russian officer is speaking with his chief.

    It'q quite possible in the 3rd voice:
    Советские летчики стоят на страже рубежей своей Родины.
    But I believe it's quite impossible in the 2nd voice:
    Советские пилоты, немедленно прекратите безобразничать!
  11. sargio Member

    lol :)
    По-моему, я теперь говорю по-русски вполне чисто.

    I think it's better to say:
    По-моему, я теперь говорю по-русски вполне сносно.

    2Kahless All the dialogs looks too academic. They should be more closer to spoken language and contain some military terms. This terms should be well-known by civilian to make your story interesting not only military persons but ordinary people.
    (It doesn't seem you're writing historical novel )
  12. sargio Member

    A lot of russian lastnames:

    You should also consider that lastname in russian novels usually means not just the one but also describes character.
    (e.g Roskolnikov )
  13. Kahless Member

    My bad I misspelled Voronin. check wikipedia
    Karlov is Czech, so I will have to change that. <sigh> After five years of writing about Col. Karlov, we will have to make an adjustment.

    I will check all this other over tonight
  14. Anatoli Senior Member

    Melbourne, Australia
    Native: русский (Russian), home country: English
    My respect to Maroseika. Excellent work! :)

    As for addressing in the army, yes we don't use "sir" or even "comrade". It's usually comrade + surname or comrade + rank. In rare cases just a rank is possible, if it is from a superior towards inferior. Сержант! Солдат! (not Рядовой!) Лейтенант!

    As far as I know "comrade" is still in use in both army and militia (police) in Russia.
  15. Kahless Member

    Lt. Col. Voronin is the executive officer of a hover tank unit based on Mars.

    I take it that Рядовой! (private) is not a rank, but rather referred to as Soldier.

    I hadn't thought of that. I guess that it would be more correct for the commander to tell his subordinate to relay the order, and if so, what would be the best way to say that? English and Russian.

  16. Maroseika Moderator

    Then it would be just "comrade commander" (товарищ командир). However please note that Soviet/Russian ranks are a bit different in Navy and in other Army branches. In the Navy Lt.-Col. is "Captain of the 2nd rank" (капитан второго ранга or in the Navy jargon кавторанг - kavtorang). In other Army branches this is подполковник - podpolkovnik (even including Sea Airforce).

    Солдат - soldier is not a rank, but the generilized name of the 2 first ranks , namely - private and private first class (рядовой and ефрейтор).
    In general, Soviet/Russian Army consists of:
    soldiers and seamen
    sergeants (and Navy seargants - starshinas)
    praproshchiks and warrant officers
    junior officers
    senior officers
    generals, admirals and marshals

    Рядовой is the lowest rank in all the Army except Navy and Sea Airforce, where the lowest rank is "seaman" (matros - матрос). Addressing Рядовой is impossible in the Navy, this would be the real insult.

    I guess he might use the following ways of addressing:
    - only rank
    - only surname or even name, including diminutive if the situation is critical
    - rank plus surname
    - board number or call sign
    Besides, you should note that in normal situation he would use 2nd voice singular (thou). Plural is very official and not being too much peculiar in Army in respect of the subirdonite, therefore if still used must mean something special.
    However in the last two variant Plural is the only possible way.
  17. Kahless Member

    Maroseika, I would like to show you a more complete background of the story and a more complete context of the parts where I need translations. However, I do not want this all posted on the net as I don't want the spiders indexing my material. Can I send you parts of my story and then we can discuss more detailed about proper phrasing and protocols? Keep in mind that none of my material is meant to show disrepect for the Soviet enemies. It is simply a story told from a 1st person narrative by the American Colonel.

  18. Kahless Member

    I don't understand this. Please explain.

    Do Soviet pilots use call signs similar to American pilots. Some of the ones my pilots have used are Powder Burns, Thor, Perdition, Undertaker, Two Horses, and Ricochet.

    What would be some examples of Soviet call signs? I keep trying to say Russian when I am inferring 'Soviet'

  19. palomnik Senior Member

    Maybe Kahless meant Voronin instead of Veronin.

    Maro, in eight years in the US military, I think I met only two officers who spoke any Russian at all - not counting myself. And that was in the seventies, when you would think it was important. I met many more who spoke French or Spanish, but most of them had no foreign language fluency at all.
  20. Kahless Member

    My novel is set in 1986, in case this is significant. In my setting, there is only Soviet and American military. (You don't get many bars, theaters. restaraunts and shops on Mars) I would think in this setting soldiers on both sides speak English and Russian.

  21. Maroseika Moderator

    Sure you can.
  22. Maroseika Moderator

    Most of the Russian names sound too officially in their full form, such as Alexey. Friends usually use diminutive forms, of which there is a great variety for each name (for Alexey this is, for example, Lyosha, Lyokha, etc.). In the situation requiring immediate reaction I guess diminutive form would be used rather than full form.

    I don't think Soviet pilots could ever use such romantic call signes. As far as I know most often they used birds names or just numbers (navy use fish names, infantry - trees and flowers).
  23. Maroseika Moderator

    Yes, Palo, you are quite right, this aspect is already clarified before.

    Maybe some pilots knew basic Russian? They were those touching Russians most closely when patroling the borders, and knowledge of Russian flying control officers commands or understanding Soviet pilots talks would be very usefull for them.
    Anyway, you know better...
  24. Sandra723

    Sandra723 Member

    Kiev, Ukraine
    I agree, that's nonsense
  25. Kahless Member

    Actually Voronin was the correct spelling, but I am reconsidering using differnt nationalities among the Soviets in my story, like Uzbek, Georgian, Ukranian, Siberian, Lithuanian.

    Well noted that there are many nationalities in the military in the old Soviet Union.
  26. Sandra723

    Sandra723 Member

    Kiev, Ukraine
    Yeah, sure Voronin sounds even more Russian-like:)
  27. sargio Member

    There is no nationality like Siberian. Siberia is just a region.
  28. Sandra723

    Sandra723 Member

    Kiev, Ukraine
    a part of Russia
  29. Kahless Member

    By the way, what is the Russian character spelling for the diminutive form of Aleksei, Layosha?
  30. Sandra723

    Sandra723 Member

    Kiev, Ukraine
    Алеша, Леша
  31. Kahless Member

    Thanx, Sandra. I can't express enough how much help this is for me. Alsready the changes I will implement have added a richness and opened up new ideas.

    I have a question, (Всем бортам (all boards), )what is this meant to mean literally? Is this a military or civilian term?

  32. Sandra723

    Sandra723 Member

    Kiev, Ukraine
    my pleasure - it's an aviation term
  33. Kahless Member

    Sandra...As in, everyone on all grid locations?

    Also, it occurred to me that the Soviet wing commander would not need to publically advised his men to stand down. The Americans needed not hear it in the first translation. Privately communicated from the commander to his first subordinte, and acted on. So I struck that line down altogether.

    I found the statement about front line Soviet officer having their names secret took me on another twist which is making the book richer with developement. I am grateful for all the help.

  34. Maroseika Moderator

    Yes, I've checked it and now may affirmate this is a standard military term. As far as I know American analog is "All stations".
    It's also used by the civilians when addressing to the indefinite number of pilots in the air (when addressing personally usually say "Voyage XX" (Рейс ХХ) or only voyage number).
  35. Kahless Member

    Hey great, thanx

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