don't have to vs. shouldn't

Discussion in 'עברית (Hebrew)' started by trigel, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. trigel Senior Member

    English - US, Korean
    In Hebrew לא צריך means that one should not do something. How do you say one doesn't need to do something?
  2. ystab Senior Member

    לא צריך is, as a matter of fact, doesn't need. He should not would be translated as לא כדאי לו (it is not beneficiary for him) or לא אמור (is not supposed to).
  3. GeriReshef

    GeriReshef Senior Member

    I think "shouldn't" would be translated as אסור. You shouldn't do that = אסור לך לעשות את זה.
    לא אמור doesn't sound to me as assertive as אסור.
    Maybe in positive - "Should" would be אמור. I should go = אני אמור ללכת.
    As I'm not a native English speaker, I'm not sure about the exact meaning of should and shouldn't.
  4. ystab Senior Member

    אסור לך is when you are not allowed.
  5. GeriReshef

    GeriReshef Senior Member

    I think "you shouldn't do it" is between "you are not supposed to do it" (אינך אמור לעשות זאת) and "you must not do it" (אסור לך לעשות זאת).
    Don't you think so?
  6. Tararam Senior Member

    In my opinion:
    *You must not do it = אסור לך לעשות את זה
    *You must do it = חובה עלייך לעשות את זה/אתה חייב לעשות את זה
    You should not do it = לא כדאי/מומלץ לך לעשות את זה
    You don't need to do it = אתה לא צריך לעשות את זה/אין צורך לעשות את זה

    *Same translation applies to "have/have got to do it".

    Another way to say "you have to do it" can be: עלייך לעשות את זה. In this case, we use the preposition על + pronoun to indicate the obligation of that body.

    For a general obligation as in "one must go to...", we use "יש" as in: יש ללכת ל
    Similarly, for a general need as in "one needs to go to...", we use צריך as in: צריך ללכת ל
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  7. arielipi Senior Member

    Actually, this case is very context-tied, because i can think of many situations where these can fit in different meanings.
    In general, should is ceday/adif, need is tzarich, must can be both khayav and tzarich.

    But again, it is context-tied, as "shouldn't do it" can be translated as "al taase et ze", and also "lo ceday".
  8. hadronic Senior Member

    New York
    French - France
    This reminds me a lot a thread I started three years ago :
    And I'm still not confident on the matter...

    Tararam summarized it well, but still, I went across numerous examples where לא צריך seems to mean "mustn't" and not "need not/don't have to ".
    אתה לא צריך לשכוח מאיפה אתה בא
    אני לא אומר שאתה לא צריך לעשן,אין לי בעייה עם זה
    What do you think of those examples ?

    Regarding "should/must": the confusion arises also because in English, those words have many meanings. Compare :
    He must be at the airport by 4. חייב/צריך
    He must be home by now. ודאי
    They should be here in a minute. צפוי
    They should come, it's fun. כדאי
  9. David S Senior Member

    Richmond, VA, USA
    English - US
    In English, "have to" and "must" seem to have different meanings, especially in the negative.

    "She has to go" conveys some sort of need.
    "She doesn't have to go" means that she does not have the need to go.
    "She must go" is like an obligation, but it seems like you can use it the same way as "She has to go"
    "She must not go" means that she has the obligation to not go, almost like a prohibition, like "She's not allowed to go"

    How do you convey the difference between "She must not go" and "She doesn't have to go" in Hebrew?

    Then again, "must" can also imply supposition:
    "She must like vodka since she's from Russia"
    "She must not know what a floppy disk is since she was born in the 90's".
    "She must have seen him on her way to work"
    "She must not have seen him on her way to work"

    Which verb would you use for this meaning of "must"?
  10. Tararam Senior Member

    She must not go = אסור לה ללכת/לעזוב
    She doesn't have to go = היא לא צריכה/חייבת ללכת

    חייב is literally "must", but it can take the meaning of "need" (צריך) in casual talk.
  11. David S Senior Member

    Richmond, VA, USA
    English - US

    Is one more common than the other?

    How would you say "must" when it means that you are supposing something?

    "She must not know what a floppy disk is since she was born in the 90's".
    "She must have seen him on her way to work"
    "She must not have seen him on her way to work"
  12. ystab Senior Member

    For supposing something, I would use בֶּטַח:
    היא בטח לא יודעת מה זה תקליטון, שכן היא נולדה בשנות ה-90.
    היא בטח ראתה אותו בדרכה לעבודה.
    היא בטח לא ראתה אותו בדרכה לעבודה.

    I suppose there are other words, but this was the first one I had in mind.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  13. Tararam Senior Member

    In cases of probability, we use "לבטח/בטח".

    היא לבטח לא יודעת מהו תקליטון/דיסקט מאחר שהיא נולדה בשנות ה90
    היא לבטח ראתה אותו בדרכה לעבודה
    היא לבטח לא ראתה אותו בדרכה לעבודה

    In all of these I used "לבטח" (La'vetach) ,but you'll hear "בטח" (Betach) in everyday speech.

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