dos apellidos, el del padre y el de la madre

Konstantinos

Senior Member
Greek - Athens
... Otaola Alday son mis apellidos españoles, dos porque como ya sabrás en España usamos dos apellidos, el del padre y el de la madre.

Please help me to literally translate this part:

el del padre y el de la madre

because I am lost.


el (the) del (from the) padre (father) y (and) el (the) de la (from the) madre (mother)

Maybe el means "the one" sometimes?
 
  • S.V.

    Senior Member
    Español, México
    Hello. Yes, 'the one' or 'that,' to help explain it. You understand a noun (el apellido), from the context. Two surnames, that of the father, that of the mother. See for ex. in CORPES (el d* * y el d* in Forma):

    no sólo mancharías mi nombre; sino el de Antonella y el de Jonathan
    borró los números que había y escribió dos: "Son el de casa y el del móvil de Ra
    le pediría a la esposa que preparara su equipaje, el suyo, el de ella y el de las hijas (EN)​

    You can see some dead combinations in 15.7n ('that in which'). El, la were 'stronger' marks. Yours works where Mine and yours! works.
     
    Last edited:

    grindios

    Senior Member
    USA
    English - United States Midwestern
    A grammatically-correct word-for-word translation that few native speakers would use outside of formal context.

    In the provided context ("sabrás") I'd definitely lean towards Gengo's version.
    Agreed. I would never say "...that of..." and I never hear it said. I would say something like what Gengo mentioned, maybe even something like, "We use both our father's and mother's last name..."
     

    Galván

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    Agreed. I would never say "...that of..." and I never hear it said. I would say something like what Gengo mentioned, maybe even something like, "We use both our father's and mother's last name..."
    I'm surprised you've never heard it said grindios, when it appears in text books and just as OtroLencho said it's a a grammatically-correct word-for-word translation. Moreover, the OP is also very formal way of saying this, and not the most common, so why are you so opposed to the idea of using this translation?
     

    gengo

    Senior Member
    American English
    I'm surprised you've never heard it said grindios, when it appears in text books and just as OtroLencho said it's a a grammatically-correct word-for-word translation. Moreover, the OP is also very formal way of saying this, and not the most common, so why are you so opposed to the idea of using this translation?

    The OP asked for a literal translation, so I suppose your version is just that. And while you are right that "that of X" is indeed correct and fairly common, it has a rather high register, and isn't something we say often in normal speech. So the natural translation would depend on the overall context. In a very formal situation, your "We use two surnames, that of the father, and that of the mother" could be appropriate, but it sounds too formal for most situations.
     

    Konstantinos

    Senior Member
    Greek - Athens
    Thank you all for your answers. Indeed the "that of" is exactly what I was looking for, it makes much sense to me, just the dictionaries (wiktionary) don't agree. They say that el means only "the", so "the one of the father and the one of the mother" is I think the best literal translation.

    My opinion is that the literal translation of texts is the only way to really learn a language. At least, it has worked for me for learning Russian and Chinese.
     

    S.V.

    Senior Member
    Español, México
    In the provided context ("sabrás") I'd definitely lean towards Gengo's version.
    Oh, of course. :thumbsup: After Konstantinos' literally, I'd say that s-genitive is the natural equivalent for most of the simple examples. The original and all the ones in CORPES are completely conversational. 'That and that' sounds more common with more complex examples, which can also give us an idea of why the Latin genitive died, under pressure.

    (el de * * * y el d* in CORPES; EN, last one is broken, just like goat's milk yoghurt with cow :p)

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