downstairs people/ people upstairs

[taked4700]

Hi,

Let me ask about how to use these two words:downstairs and upstairs.

"The downstairs people are from New York." would be idiomatic.

But "The people downstairs are ..." wouldn't be idiomatic.

In reverse, "The upstairs people are..." wouldn't be idiomatic, but "The people upstairs are..." idiomatic.

In other words, downstairs is used as a premodifier, but upstairs does not work as a premodifier.

Am I right?

Thanks in advance.

 

[MilkyBarKid]

"The people downstairs/upstairs/across the hall are from New York."

What have you read that has confused you?

I can imagine you might read/have read something like:
"The people downstairs are OK as neighbours, but the upstairs crowd/people are...."

 

[Fabulist]

No, I don't think you are. I don't see anything "incorrect" about "The people downstairs are friendly but noisy."

I don't think I would use either "The upstairs people are ..." or "The downstairs people are ..." but I can't say that either is "wrong."

 

[sandpiperlily]

I'm not sure I understand your question. What do you mean by "the downstairs people" and "the upstairs people" ?

Do you mean "the people who live upstairs" (in the apartment above this one, perhaps)?
Do you mean "the people who are upstairs at this moment" ?

Normally, I wouldn't use either upstairs or downstairs as an adjective to modify people. I would just say "the people who live up/downstairs," or "the people up/downstairs."

However, I could use it as an adjective to modify other things. For example:
--I just bought new towels for the upstairs bathroom. [=the bathroom which is on the second floor of the house, as opposed to the first-floor bathroom]
--The house has two upstairs bedrooms and one downstairs bedroom. [=two bedrooms on the second floor and one bedroom on the first floor]

 

[taked4700]

Thank you, all.

Sorry for the ambiguity of my question.

Let me set some context.

You are living in a condo on the third floor.
You see the people who are living on the second floor and chat sometimes with them.
You never see the people who are living upstairs.

Do you say to your family "The downstairs people are so noisy, aren't they?"


Thanks in advance.

 

[entangledbank]

Both words are premodifiers when they refer to things permanently there, it seems to me: the upstairs/downstairs windows, cupboard, bathroom. It's just possible with some people: the upstairs staff are the staff who look after (clean, perhaps) the upstairs rooms.

This contrasts them with the staff upstairs, who are staff who are currently upstairs (and might come down). The people upstairs are the people above, the people above me, the people in the flat/room above. It's a postmodifier for movable things: if there's a copy of a book upstairs, it can be called the copy upstairs, and I can get it and bring it downstairs.

But the postmodifiers can also be used with permanent things: the upstairs windows/bathrooms are the windows/bathrooms upstairs. There may be other conditions on how we choose which to say here.

 

[Fabulist]

I would say, "The people downstairs are noisy, aren't they?"

It's a separate issue, but I wouldn't use "so" with a tag question, only with a statement: "The people downstairs are so noisy!"

 

[Parla]

Let me set some context.

You are living in a condo on the third floor.
You see the people who are living on the second floor and chat sometimes with them.
You never see the people who are living upstairs.

Do you say to your family "The downstairs people are so noisy, aren't they?"

Your question seems to be: Do we refer differently to people depending upon whether they are above us or below us? Does it depend upon whether or not they are noisy, or how often we see them?

The answer to both questions is: No.

If I lived on the third floor, I would refer to the people who live on the fourth floor as "the people upstairs"; I would refer to the people who live on the second floor as "the people downstairs".

"Downstairs people" or "upstairs people" might be used, but that would be far less common.

 

[taked4700]

Thank you, Entangledbank, Fabulist, Parla.

Let me explain why I asked this question.

I've been thinking about the distinction of premodifier and postmodifier or how you judge when to use premodifier and when not.

A guess of mine is that you use a premodifier when you can visualize the thing as a whole with what modifies the thing.

When you see a cat and the cat is white, you visualize a white cat at once, in other words, you notice the cat is white just the same time you see the cat. This simultaneity is the thing that makes you choose premodifying.

 

[MikeLynn]

You have been discussing the problem of downstairs/upstairs people. But how about my downstairs/upstairs neighbor? Would that be idiomatic? Neighbors are, sometimes quite unfortunately, pretty stable entities
Thanks a lot for your opinions based on the "real feel" for the language.

 

[Cagey]

I would say downstairs/upstairs neighbor.

As you say, neighbors are stable entities, and so my use accords with the distinction made by entangledbank in post #6 above.

 

[Parla]

Let us say that there is a woman living in the apartment above me (which happens to be true). She is my upstairs neighbor, and she is the woman upstairs (not the "upstairs woman"). That's just the way we say it. There's no "rule".

 

[Cagey]

Maybe one of the things that affects our choice is the feature that is picked out by the noun we use. My neighbors are defined by their living near me in one direction or another, while a woman is a person with many possible roles, only one of which happens to be that she is upstairs from me.

 

[MikeLynn]

Thank you, everybody for your contributions that have really helped me to hear the music behind the scenes a lot. I do realize that language and rules are not, very often, the best friends, but for us, non-native speakers, it's one of the very few chances to understand it a bit more and better.