Discussion in 'All Languages' started by Maroseika, Mar 20, 2011.

  1. Maroseika Moderator

    A draft or a model document in Russian is called рыба - fish. This is, for example, a contract without names of the parties or without many details, etc.
    There is no reliable version why it is 'fish' in Russian, that is why I'm wondering whether it might be a calque from some foreign language.

    How do you call colloquially such kind of a document in your language?
  2. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    In Dutch maybe a 'first throw': een eerste worp. No fish, nothing else I can imagine right now.
    However, we do say: een visje uitwerpen/ uitgooien, to throw out a little fish, which we do when we try something and see whether anyone bites (i.e., reacts positively, or reacts at all). Could there be a link?
  3. DearPrudence

    DearPrudence Dépêche Mod (AL mod)

    French (lower Normandy)
    In French as well we say 'a first throw': "un premier jet" (a first sketch).
    Otherwise we just say "un brouillon".
  4. Maroseika Moderator

    Interesting idea. In Russian we have semantically similar expression - закинуть удочку (lit. to throw a fishing rod) - to put out a feeler.
    However it is still too far from a "draft". For calqueing we need much more precise correspondence.
  5. Maroseika Moderator

    Very interesting word. According to CNRTL it can be a congnate of German *brod (bouillon, cf. modern German bröd - rotten, foul) and therefore even Russian брод (ford < swampy place).
    But still no reference to a fish...
  6. origumi Senior Member

    Hebrew: the word is tyuta. borrowed from Aramaic. Literally "erasable" or "stained" (I saw both versions, not sure which is correct).
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2011
  7. Tjahzi

    Tjahzi Senior Member

    Umeå, Sweden
    Swedish (Göteborg)
    Swedish uses different words for template (an "empty" form ready to be filled in) and draft (a first version of a piece of written material).

    The former is mall [malː] and the latter is utkast ['ʉːt.kast] (out-throw). In short, no fish-connection to here.
  8. jazyk Senior Member

    Brno, Česká republika
    Brazílie, portugalština
    In Portuguese: draft - rascunho.
  9. sakvaka

    sakvaka Senior Member

    Same here. Template is malli or pohja (bottom), and draft is luonnos (differently derived "creation", usually it is "luomus").
  10. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    But could you explain the origin of the word, Jazyk.

    As for 'mal' : we know that word too, but I'd say it has little to do with drafts. Doesn't it?
  11. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    In Greek:
    «Προσχέδιο» (pro'sçeðio n.), compound formed with the joining together of the prefix and preposition «πρὸ» (prŏ)-->before, in front of + Classical adj. «σχέδιος-σχεδία-σχέδιον» ('sxĕdīŏs m./sxĕ'dīă f./'sxĕdīŏn n.)-->casual, temporary, sketchily; PIE base *segh-, to get, obtain.

    [ç] is a voiceless palatal fricative
  12. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    Tagalog: Paunang sulat/ subok lang
  13. Encolpius

    Encolpius Senior Member

    Praha (Prague)
    magyar (Hungarian)
    magyar :: vázlat, piszkozat [no fish :)]
  14. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Would both Mataripis and Encolpius be able to comment on the precise meaning of those words? (Thanks !)

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