Dual Citizenship

Discussion in 'Cultural Discussions' started by Hockey13, Nov 20, 2006.

  1. Pedro y La Torre Senior Member

    Paris, France
    English (Ireland)
    Not to mention that the ancestral countries still "claim" them. I can't count how many Irish-American inventors, politicians etc. that Irish people would be proud to claim as "Irish" even though they were, for all intents and purposes, 100 per cent American. I wonder whether the Irish are not more devoted to JFK's memory than Americans are.
     
  2. Vanda

    Vanda Moderesa de Beagá

    Belo Horizonte, BRASIL
    Português/ Brasil
    So, this is my point: a political play from USA and the other countries that do the same: mainly if the person is someone proeminent in any area, or like I know some families here, to send the boys to war as target for bombs. Please don't take me badly here, what I mean when they force a person to give up their original citizenship they have all political interests, I don't see the same with double citizenship here, if I am making myself understood. I don't want to sound offensive here, just pointing what politics are like.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  3. Angelo di fuoco Senior Member

    Germany
    Russian & German (GER) bilingual
    How many works did Nabokov write in Russian and how many in English?
     
  4. merquiades

    merquiades Senior Member

    Lorraine in France
    English (US Northeast)
    Ola Vanda. All I can do is repeat that I have double citizenship, I don't hide it, and it is seen as normal. The embassy knows it, when I fly I declare it, etc. No one has ever pressured me to take an oath (on either side). When I become famous I'm not sure who will fight to claim me :) In art museums on both sides of the Atlantic I see American (born Russia), French (worked in Spain), all sorts of combinations. For Picasso it always says French (born in Spain). However, on rue Alexander Graham Bell, not far from where I live, it reads American scientist, but no mention of UK.
     
  5. Vanda

    Vanda Moderesa de Beagá

    Belo Horizonte, BRASIL
    Português/ Brasil
    OH, I see. I understood that if you oath (tá certo?) American citizenship you have to give up - officially - all the other(s) one(s).
     
  6. merquiades

    merquiades Senior Member

    Lorraine in France
    English (US Northeast)
    I never took an oath but I was not nationalized. I know too many American bi-nationals (personally not with a Brazilian combination though) for it not to be an accepted practice.

    However, I know for a fact that China strips citizens of their Chinese nationality when they obtain another nationality.
     
  7. JamesM

    JamesM Senior Member

    You DO realize that a person can live in the U.S. for a lifetime and never become a citizen, right? It is a choice to become a citizen that requires classes, a test and an oath. No one is forced to do so. You can be what is called "a resident alien" for life. You can own property, run a company and do all your normal daily business. You can't hold certain public offices. So if you are concerned about politics you can choose simply to not engage in them by not becoming a citizen. I get the impression from your comments that people are forced to become citizens here. Not at all.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  8. JamesM

    JamesM Senior Member

    Here's an interesting comment from one site:

    http://www.legallanguage.com/legal-articles/becoming-a-us-citizen/
     
  9. merquiades

    merquiades Senior Member

    Lorraine in France
    English (US Northeast)
    I just found this information in a link from the page you posted.

    Now thankfully it's clear.
     
  10. Vanda

    Vanda Moderesa de Beagá

    Belo Horizonte, BRASIL
    Português/ Brasil
  11. caelum

    caelum Senior Member

    Northwestern Ontario
    Canadian English
    A friend from my city in Canada moved to the US and had to renounce her Canadian citizenship to get an American one, but afterward she went and applied for and was granted her Canadian nationality again, because we allow dual citizenship up here.
     
  12. Hector9

    Hector9 Senior Member

    That's interesting, how long did it take to your friend to re apply to her canadian citizenship? was it fast and easy?
     
  13. caelum

    caelum Senior Member

    Northwestern Ontario
    Canadian English
    I'm not exactly sure. I don't think it was a difficult process. Much like the UK, if you were born in Canada, you're always a Canadian, so I think they just grant it.
     
  14. Packard

    Packard Senior Member

    USA, English
    My niece was born in Brazil of two U.S. citizens. When she turned 18 she had to declare her citizenship. I don't know if it was a USA requirement or a Brazilian requirement. She declared as a U.S. citizen. That was 14 years ago. Maybe the laws have changed since then.
     
  15. Vanda

    Vanda Moderesa de Beagá

    Belo Horizonte, BRASIL
    Português/ Brasil
    I can bet it is USA requirements. I think it is so ''antipático'' having to renounce one citizenship to become American! Brazilians are allowed to have 2 citizenships. Nowadays I am Italian too, would NEVER renounce my Brazilian citizenship for any other in the world!
     
  16. Packard

    Packard Senior Member

    USA, English
    She might have agreed with you if she had not left Brazil when she was four months old.
     
  17. Pedro y La Torre Senior Member

    Paris, France
    English (Ireland)
    Lots of Irish citizens are also American citizens; I've never heard of it causing an issue.
    Rumour has it that there are more Irish passport holders in the USA than in Ireland.
     
  18. Packard

    Packard Senior Member

    USA, English
    There are issues actually. When you are in a foreign country and you get in trouble you can apply to your consulate for assistance. With a dual citizenship you can not apply for assistance at either of the countries where you hold citizenship. Additionally you cannot hold any state department positions, even though the language fluency might make you well-equipped for the jobs.

    As a state department employee you would need to be able to hide behind diplomatic immunity. As a citizen in the host country you would not have that immunity and might be a liability to the State Department.

    Here is a list of countries that Brazil recognizes for dual citizenship: http://thebrazilbusiness.com/article/dual-citizenship-in-brazil

    There is probably a list for Ireland too.
     
  19. Pedro y La Torre Senior Member

    Paris, France
    English (Ireland)
    But that wouldn't make sense, unless I've picked you up wrong. It would reduce dual passport holders to, essentially, stateless persons while in foreign countries. If I were a dual American-Irish citizen, I would, whilst in America, be afforded all the statutory rights due to an U.S. passport holder. And vice versa in Ireland. In a third country, I could apply for representation at either embassy/consulate (EU citizens can apply for representation by any other EU state while abroad).

    The State department one is something I hadn't thought of. I suppose you'd be afforded the opportunity to renounce any foreign citizenships before they rejected you entirely though.
     
  20. Vanda

    Vanda Moderesa de Beagá

    Belo Horizonte, BRASIL
    Português/ Brasil
    Hope I haven't offended the family. This was not the intention. And hers is just another story. :)
    By the way, I'll try to find the law about foreigners born here. There is something about it somewhere...

    Editing: here is the law:
    Art. 1º São brasileiros: I - os nascidos no Brasil, ainda que de pais estrangeiros, desde que não residam estes a serviço de seu país;

    DA OPÇÃO -Art. 2º Quando um dos pais for estrangeiro, residente no Brasil a serviço de seu governo, e o outro for brasileiro, o filho, aqui nascido, poderá optar pela nacionalidade brasileira, na forma do art. 129, nº II, da Constituição Federal.

    So, if foreigners have children born here they''ll be BR if their parents are not working for their government. If one of the parents is foreign and the other is BR, the children can opt for BR citizenship.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  21. Packard

    Packard Senior Member

    USA, English
    I was reading about such a case. The applicant held dual citizenship and was applying to the US State Department. They rejected his application because he could not be given diplomatic immunity (and protect state secrets, I guess). He offered to renounce his citizenship but the State Department said they could only use the information that was available at the time the application was made. No job. I will see if I can find that reference.

    Addendum: I found it!

    https://careers.state.gov/engage/forums/consular-adjudicators/dual-citizenship-usa-brazil
     
  22. Packard

    Packard Senior Member

    USA, English
    No offense taken. In fact, when she visited there with her parents I suggested she run to the Brazilian consulate and seek asylum. She was not yet 18 and was a ward of her parents, but as a citizen of Brazil she could assert herself.

    She said, "Why would I want to do that, Uncle Packard?"

    "Why?" I said. "So you can negotiate for better treatment (she was driving a Subaru--I suggested a BMW).:D
     
  23. merquiades

    merquiades Senior Member

    Lorraine in France
    English (US Northeast)
    I have two nationalities and two passports, one American, one French. Never had any problem with that. Also know 5 other people in the same situation. I know there is no problem. I even tell them when I fly and go through customs. Sometimes they tell me to use one or the other so it goes quicker bureaucratically. I also vote in both countries.
     
  24. ESustad Senior Member

    Washington, DC
    English - (Minnesota)
    Legally, a US citizen is obligated to enter the US with a US passport, regardless of other nationalities.
     
  25. merquiades

    merquiades Senior Member

    Lorraine in France
    English (US Northeast)
    and leave using the other passport. That's what they have me do.
     
  26. Sepia Senior Member

    High German/Danish
    So if they have an Italian citizen, Luigi X, leaving the USA 5 times showing his Italian passport and reentering the USA 5 times showing his US Passport, they have a Luigi X who must have entered the USA 5 times, but there is no record of him doing so. Is that just about how the system works? Shouldn't that cause some sort of a problem?
     
  27. merquiades

    merquiades Senior Member

    Lorraine in France
    English (US Northeast)
    This is a very good question, but I'm afraid I have no answer. Maybe countries are only interested in knowing who is entering, not leaving? All I can say is that it works that way. Actually the airlines encourage/ enforce this system. On the times that I have inadvertently decided to show another passport, they ask for visa/return tickets etc. and when I explain the situation they always tell me (us - as it is the same with my friends) to use the passport always in the direction you are travelling to avoid being hassled. So overtime that has become routine.
     
  28. Pedro y La Torre Senior Member

    Paris, France
    English (Ireland)
    Does the U.S. give you an exit stamp? I don't believe it does.
     
  29. merquiades

    merquiades Senior Member

    Lorraine in France
    English (US Northeast)
    I just had a look. No, I don't have any exit stamps in my passport.
     
  30. ESustad Senior Member

    Washington, DC
    English - (Minnesota)
    The US typically does take your I-94 upon departure from the country.
     
  31. merquiades

    merquiades Senior Member

    Lorraine in France
    English (US Northeast)
    Never knew it existed until now.
     
  32. ESustad Senior Member

    Washington, DC
    English - (Minnesota)
    It only exists online now. It used to be the white form that CBP would staple into your passport upon arrival.
     
  33. merquiades

    merquiades Senior Member

    Lorraine in France
    English (US Northeast)
    I remember the blue cards you had to fill out on the plane prior to landing, but they just took them from me, never stapled them into my passport. I go in on a US passport though. So I avoid all that paperwork.
     
  34. Nipnip Senior Member

    Español
    How was it replaced?

    They did use to request the little white added stamp at exit, additionally, you were requested to scan your passport on machines installed for that purpose after customs and security, at least when traveling overseas.

    It used to be the Airlines responsibility to collect the white stamps, but I noticed that they just but them in an improvised cardboard box. Anyways, this was when they couldn't spy as much and tougher on-site security was needed.
     
  35. Maxi Muneyoshi

    Maxi Muneyoshi Member

    portuguese(BR)
    According to the list, dual German-Brazilian citizenship is not possible, but in fact it is, depending on the circumstances. This citizenship thing has so many nuances that such a list is bound to have some mistakes.
     
  36. london calling Senior Member

    SALERNO, ITALY
    UK ENGLISH
    I have dual UK/Italian citizenship and cannot avail of the British Embassy here in Italy if I am in any sort of 'trouble'.

    Just as an aside. When my son was born here (of an Italian father and therefore automatically an Italian national) I went to the Consulate and applied for British citizenship for him: it was granted immediately.
     
  37. Mirlo

    Mirlo Senior Member

    Missouri
    Castellano, Panamá/ English-USA
    I agree , my oldest daughter was born in an Army base in Panama and she have dual citizenship. No one have ever told her that she have to renounce to the Panamanian one. :)
     
  38. aloofsocialite

    aloofsocialite Senior Member

    San Francisco / Oakland, CA
    English - USA (California)
    I was born in the US and thus have a US passport. I also hold a Japanese passport because that's where my father was born. In my case, it wasn't an easy process to have done, since I had to obtain a copy of my Japanese birth certificate from a government office in Japan, fill out all the paperwork in Japanese (there are no other language options) and register with the Japanese government as a citizen living overseas. I've never had any problem using my Japanese passport or had problems from the US government.
     
  39. Sepia Senior Member

    High German/Danish
    A new Danish law is coming up, allowing persons to regain Danish citizenship and allowing them to have dual citizenship.
     
  40. mexerica feliz

    mexerica feliz Senior Member

    Vestlandet
    português nordestino
    É vero. ;)
     
  41. duvija

    duvija Senior Member

    Chicago
    Spanish - Uruguay
    My son has 3. He was born in Argentina, his parents (us) are Uruguayans so he's also Uruguayan, and became an American citizen. Didn't have to give up any of those.
     
  42. Packard

    Packard Senior Member

    USA, English
    Not really a "dual citizen" now is he? He'd have to give up one to become one.:D
     
  43. duvija

    duvija Senior Member

    Chicago
    Spanish - Uruguay
    Trial, I guess. But it sounds awful !
     
  44. JamesM

    JamesM Senior Member

    (Triple, I think. ;) )
     
  45. Packard

    Packard Senior Member

    USA, English
    Wiki calls it "multiple citizenship" or "multiple nationality". Or a "Multi" for short, I guess:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_citizenship

    Interestingly:

    [...] Colloquial speech refers to people "holding" multiple citizenship but technically each nation makes a claim that this person be considered its national.[...]
     
  46. Rodal

    Rodal Senior Member

    Seattle WA
    Castellano (Chile)
    If The US does not allow dual citizenship but other countries do, does that mean that an american citizen not born in the United States that was naturalized in the States and renounced his citizenship from let's say Brazil (for example), he can still go back to his mother country and claim to be a citizen of that country while not in the US? or this is a rule that only applies while living in the US?
     
  47. Packard

    Packard Senior Member

    USA, English

    The USA does not permit dual citizenship. Multiple citizenship - Wikipedia

    My niece, born in Brazil, but living all but the first few months in the USA of American parents had to declare her citizenship when she turned 18.

    I would assume that if she were born in Brazil it would be easier for her to get a new Brazilian citizenship, but I would also assume that she would have to apply like everyone else.
     
  48. ain'ttranslationfun? Senior Member

    US English
    Hi, Pack, In the Wikipedia article you cited, it says "...the United States allow dual citizenship".

    I know someone with three citizenships/nationalities: Born in the US to a French mother and an Italian father (actually from San Remo). Now, of course, she has US & EU passports.
     
  49. Packard

    Packard Senior Member

    USA, English
    I missed that. But of course the reason the US allows dual citizenship is that we tax worldwide. So someone with a dual citizenship living, say, in Paris would be tax-liable in the USA. Even if they never visit the USA at all.

    And if you want to quit your US citizenship you have to pay up about $2,400.00.
     
  50. ain'ttranslationfun? Senior Member

    US English
    I think there's a minimum income earned abroad below which US citizens living in another country don't have to pay US taxes.
     

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