Due me ne hanno condonati

T

theartichoke

Senior Member
English - Canada
Hi everyone,

We're talking here about someone who was sentenced to 15 years in prison but let out after serving 13. The speaker is a woman who killed her husband in a blind rage after he gambled away her life savings -- this is the last line of the story, coming right after she says, Ho fatto tredici anni, so there's no further information at all on why Due me ne hanno condonati.

I want to be accurate (so if "condonare" in this context has a specific meaning that translates to a specific word in English, that would be good to know), but it also has to be short and natural-sounding, something an ordinary person would say, nothing too technical or sophisticated. The best English phrase that occurs to me is "They knocked two off for good behaviour," which would also be perfect for my context, as the speaker is a model of good behaviour, aside from one unpremeditated murder. But can condonare refer to time off for good behaviour? Is that even a concept in the Italian prison system? The conversation takes place in the early to mid 1950s, if that's of any use.
 
    • It could be that she benefitted from a collective pardon. The last one was in 2006 - if we are talking about Italy and if my memory does not fail me - and getting two years knocked off would be just within the scope, which was a maximum of 3 years off the original sentence.

    A prison sentence reduction for good behavior (added 8/21 9:53 CST) can't exceed, from what I read, 1.5 months for every 6 months served. So, that would also work.

    But we don't know which one it is, because she is not saying.

    Why not just "I did thirteen years. They knocked two off". After all, that's what she is saying.
     
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    Sorry Ben but this is not the same as serving 13 years of a 15 year sentence and then being released. Also I being released early and being pardoned, if I'm not mistaken, are not the same thing.
     
    I suggest: "After serving 13 years of my sentence, I had my prison term reduced by two years for good behaviour."

    Bye,
    Benzene
     
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    Pietruzzo said:
    "Due me ne hanno condonati" doesn't sound natural to me. As I see it, it should be either "Due (anni) me li hanno condonati or "Me ne hanno condonati due (di anni)".
    Click to expand...
    Is the meaning still clear (i.e., it means what I think it means?) despite sounding unnatural? Not being a native speaker makes it hard to pick up on what would or wouldn't be the usual way of phrasing a concept I haven't encountered before. Any chance it could be an old-fashioned construction--the story was written at the same time as it's set--or an attempt to imitate the speech of an uneducated person?

    Also, does the original sounds as odd and abrupt in Italian as "they knocked two off" with no further explanation?

    Glad to know that "good behaviour" is a concept in the Italian system as well, so even if I'm embellishing, it's in the realm of possibility.
     
    theartichoke said:
    Hi everyone,

    We're talking here about someone who was sentenced to 15 years in prison but let out after serving 13. The speaker is a woman who killed her husband in a blind rage after he gambled away her life savings -- this is the last line of the story, coming right after she says, Ho fatto tredici anni, so there's no further information at all on why Due me ne hanno condonati.

    I want to be accurate (so if "condonare" in this context has a specific meaning that translates to a specific word in English, that would be good to know), but it also has to be short and natural-sounding, something an ordinary person would say, nothing too technical or sophisticated. The best English phrase that occurs to me is "They knocked two off for good behaviour," which would also be perfect for my context, as the speaker is a model of good behaviour, aside from one unpremeditated murder. But can condonare refer to time off for good behaviour? Is that even a concept in the Italian prison system? The conversation takes place in the early to mid 1950s, if that's of any use.
    Click to expand...

    To expand on this, all that 'condonare' means is 'annullare talmente o parzialmente una pena o una sanzione'.

    The context here is, if I understand correctly : "Ho fatto tredici anni. Due me ne hanno condonati".

    I read some doubts above on the sentence, that it does not sound natural etc. For me it's perfectly grammatical, including the 'dislocazione a sinistra' dell'oggetto/pronome numerale 'due' che lo avvicina a 'anni' della frase precedente, creating a seamless logical flow, both colloquial and, if I may say, elegant.

    But there's nothing here to indicate whether the 'condono' was a result of good behavior, or instead a collective measure to empty the prisons or garner some political capital. Does it matter to the economy of the story?
     
    Odysseus54 said:
    I read some doubts above on the sentence, that it does not sound natural etc. For me it's perfectly grammatical
    Click to expand...
    I must say that while I can't say whether that wording is grammatical or not, I agree with those who have said it doesn't sound natural.
    It might be regional, but here everyone would only say "me ne hanno condonati due"
     
    Odysseus54 said:
    To expand on this, all that 'condonare' means is 'annullare talmente o parzialmente una pena o una sanzione'.

    The context here is, if I understand correctly : "Ho fatto tredici anni. Due me ne hanno condonati".

    But there's nothing here to indicate whether the 'condono' was a result of good behavior, or instead a collective measure to empty the prisons or garner some political capital. Does it matter to the economy of the story?
    Click to expand...
    Yes, those are literally the last lines of the story; there might be a "disse" in between them (I don't have it in front of me), but that's it. The question of why the "condono" happened isn't important to the story, but the line has to sound natural and conversational in a way that makes its content all the more shocking: the last line of the story is when the reader (and the character to whom the woman is speaking) finds out that the speaker did not take her loss with quiet resignation, and in fact committed murder. We (and her old acquaintance) learn in the first paragraph of the story that she's now a widow; we learn in the last line how she came to be one.
     
    theartichoke said:
    Yes, those are literally the last lines of the story; there might be a "disse" in between them (I don't have it in front of me), but that's it. The question of why the "condono" happened isn't important to the story, but the line has to sound natural and conversational in a way that makes its content all the more shocking: the last line of the story is when the reader (and the character to whom the woman is speaking) finds out that the speaker did not take her loss with quiet resignation, and in fact committed murder. We (and her old acquaintance) learn in the first paragraph of the story that she's now a widow; we learn in the last line how she came to be one.
    Click to expand...

    Kick-ass! I like that. So, she is a soft-spoken, controlled woman. Isn't "knocked-off" a bit kinetic? Other than that, I think it's fine.
     
    theartichoke said:
    Is the meaning still clear (i.e., it means what I think it means?) despite sounding unnatural? Not being a native speaker makes it hard to pick up on what would or wouldn't be the usual way of phrasing a concept I haven't encountered before. Any chance it could be an old-fashioned construction--the story was written at the same time as it's set--or an attempt to imitate the speech of an uneducated person?

    Also, does the original sounds as odd and abrupt in Italian as "they knocked two off" with no further explanation?

    Glad to know that "good behaviour" is a concept in the Italian system as well, so even if I'm embellishing, it's in the realm of possibility.
    Click to expand...
    Yes, it means what you think it means.
    No, it does not sound unnatural and NO it is not regional, odd or anything.
    It is grammatically correct and, if they hear it I think everybody will agree with me right away. Here it is difficult to explain.
    I'll try. Maybe a comma will help.

    "Due, me li hanno condonati" ---> it is like "two were", as you say, "knocked off" (or, literally: Two, they were knocked off)

    The original one is more, say, "intense" and there could be many nuances.
    Here's one.
    "Due, me ne hanno condonati" ---> it is like giving more emphasis. Like, "TWO, .... . They knocked TWO off!" (ne stands for "of these years").
    Of course, sound would help.
     
    "Remission" è troppo tecnico?

    "2 years' remission"?

    Edit: O "2 years remitted", se si può dire.
     
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    theartichoke said:
    I think so. It seems to be correct, but I'd never heard the term in this context until now. If "knocked" sounds a bit too slangy, it's occurred to me that another alternative could be "They took two off for good behaviour."
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    Se è per "buona condotta" che i due anni le sono stati condonati, ma questa non viene menzionata nel testo, anche se probabilmente di questo si tratta. In un film ho sentito "Minus good behaviour". Troppo sofisticato forse.

    Edit:
    Sì, secondo me "knocked" è un po' troppo slangy rispetto all'originale. Mio parere.

    "Reduced by two years"*?
    *Già suggerito da Benzene, sorry.
     
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