EN: même pas + temps

#1
On n'est arrivé il y a même pas 2 semaines que blabla..
We arrived not even 2 weeks ago that blabla..?
We are not arrived for 2 weeks..

Je suis la depuis même pas 5 mins que blabla..
I am there not even for 5mins that bla...
I am not there for 5mins...

I would choose the second case for each, is it correct?
 
  • cropje_jnr

    Senior Member
    English - Australia
    #2
    On n'est arrivé il y a même pas 2 semaines que blabla..
    We arrived not even 2 weeks ago :tick: that:warning: blabla..?
    We are not arrived for 2 weeks..:cross:

    Je suis là depuis même pas 5 mins que blabla..
    I am there not even for 5mins that bla...:cross:
    I am not there for 5mins... :cross:

    I would choose the second case for each, is it correct?
    My personal thoughts: :)

    Past tense:

    We hadn't even been there (for) 2 weeks before/when...
    I hadn't been there even (for) five minutes before/when...

    Present tense:

    We haven't even been here (for) 2 weeks and/but/yet...
    I haven't even been here (for) five minutes and/but/yet...
     

    jann

    co-mod'
    English - USA
    #3
    Bonjour Starkaali :)

    Vos débuts de phrases en français me semblent un peu bizarres, non ? Ça aiderait peut-être d'avoir les parties "blabla"...

    On est arrivé il y a même pas deux semaines = ça ne fait que 2 semaines que nous sommes là. Je vois mal ajouter que + proposition à la fin... :confused:

    De toute façon, la présence de même pas dans la phrase en français n'a pas d'importance pour le choix du temps, qui est lui contrôlé par la structure "il y a". C'est de même en anglais ; ajouter "even" ne change pas le temps du verbe.

    En revanche, aucune de vos phrases en anglais ne marche... mais je ne peux pas vous les corriger sans comprendre ce que vous voulez dire. :p Pourriez-vous compléter les phrases en français, afin que je voie mieux l'idée (et surtout la situation temporelle) que vous souhaitez exprimer ?


    EDIT : je vois que cropje a autant de difficulté que moi à comprendre ce que vous voulez dire : il vous donne donc toutes les possibilités en anglais.... mais j'ignore toujours laquelle (lesquelles?) d'entre elles correspond(ent) le mieux à vos idées.
     
    USA - English
    #4
    You can't say "We are not arrived for two weeks [when]..."
    For the first case I would say "Not even two weeks after our arrival, ..." or "Not even two weeks after we arrived, ..."

    "I am not there for five minutes when..." is OK, but "I was not there..." or "Had not been there..." sounds more natural.
     

    Avignonais

    Senior Member
    USA
    USA, Anglophone
    #5
    1. We haven't even been there 2 weeks that blabla
    But more frequently we would use the past perfect in telling the story: We hadn't even been there 2 weeks that blabla
    OR
    It hasn't even been 2 weeks since we arrived that...
    PAST It hadn't even been 2 weeks since we arrived that ...

    2. I am there not even 5 mins que blabla (don't need the "for") -- colloquial
    OR I am not even there (for) 5 mins that blabla.
     

    jann

    co-mod'
    English - USA
    #6
    I'm sorry to be difficult, but when do we ever say in English, I am not there (for) even 5min that...? "That" what? That the phone rings? We don't say this. We say, I haven't even been there for five minutes and/when the phone rings! (informal, using present to narrate the past) or I hadn't even been there five minutes when the phone rang! (more correct, using the past to narrate the past).

    Can someone please give me an example in French or in English of something we could tack on after que... or that... that would still make grammatical and logical sense? :confused:
     

    Avignonais

    Senior Member
    USA
    USA, Anglophone
    #7
    Jann, Thanks for the reasonable reminder that in written English, it is better to use: "I haven't even been there.." or "I hadn't even been there..."

    You are also mostly right about the impossibility of using "that" in "I am not even there...", but in speech it is possible to say:
    I am not even there for five minutes and (OR when) the phone begins to ring.
    As a major stretch, I feel you could possibly say, "I am not even there 10 minutes that all hell breaks loose". But it is hard to imagine this being used in writing.
     

    cropje_jnr

    Senior Member
    English - Australia
    #8
    Jann, Thanks for the reasonable reminder that in written English, it is better to use: "I haven't even been there.." or "I hadn't even been there..."

    You are also mostly right about the impossibility of using "that" in "I am not even there...", but in speech it is possible to say:
    I am not even there for five minutes and (OR when) the phone begins to ring.
    As a major stretch, I feel you could possibly say, "I am not even there 10 minutes that all hell breaks loose". But it is hard to imagine this being used in writing.
    It sounded weird at first but I do agree, after much reflection. I would normally expect the "for" to be there in such as sentence (don't ask me why!), which would of course surely be strictly conversational.
     
    #9
    Oops! sorry everybody! I was not clear enough, let's see:

    this phrase is spoken French, pardon me for not mention it before :eek: it is generally used to emphasize the nature of a fact occuring earlier than expected (or occuring when we didn't expect it at all):

    Je ne suis même pas là depuis 5 mins, tu me demandes déjà de faire un compte rendu sur mon voyage au Mexique (i.e. laisse moi 5 minutes le temps que je prennes un café)
    =>
    I am not there for even 5 mins, you're already asking me for a complete report about my recent trip to Mexico (i.e give me 5mins, I am all yours after a cup of coffee)

    again, it's very colloquial;
    another way could be: Je ne suis là depuis même pas 5mins, etc.

    Another example:
    On n'était pas dans notre nouvelle maison depuis 2jours que les voisins se plaignaient déjà du bruit (NB: c'est du vécu..)
    =>
    We were not there for 2 days when the neighbors were already complaining against the noise.

    In this latter example, même is omited, this word being used to emphasize the surprise

    If I have it back:
    On n'était dans notre nouvelle maison depuis même pas 2jours, etc.

    My question was not about the tenses (although I obviously have a problem with tenses when translating to English) but about the translation, more or less colloquial, of this French phrase.
     

    jann

    co-mod'
    English - USA
    #10
    Merci Avigonais, Cropje et Starkaali, je comprends mieux :)

    Alors pour transmettre ce même ton, je préfère "and" au lieu de "when". Omettre "even" et "for" rend la phrase encore plus familier.

    Je ne suis même pas là depuis 5 mins, tu me demandes déjà de faire un compte rendu
    I haven't (even) been here five minutes and you're already asking me to tell you about...
    I just walked in and you're already asking...
    I've been here all of five minutes and you're already asking...
    I hardly (have time to) walk in and you're already asking... (teasing and quite colloquial, because of the incorrect use of the present tense in the principle clause)

    On n'était pas dans notre nouvelle maison depuis 2jours que les voisins se plaignaient déjà du bruit
    We hadn't (even) been in our new place 2 days and the neighbors were already complaining...
     

    Avignonais

    Senior Member
    USA
    USA, Anglophone
    #11
    Staarkali,
    Thanks. I would definitely change "I am not there for even 5 mins, you're already asking me ..." to "I haven't even been here 5 minutes, and you're already...", as Jann and cropje_jnr suggested. Their suggestion works for spoken as well as written English. The present tense works in a limited number of (spoken) cases... so you have to be careful with it.

    In English, too, the "even" can be skipped as in your second sentence. I think you understand the translation of this usage, but the perfect tenses are used more often in English.
     
    #12
    To sum up:
    • que (French) => and/when (English)
    • In first part of the English sentence, complying the tense sequence is formal, although present+present is tolerated and of common habbit at oral.
    • English has a preference for here whereas French would be
    • (même) pas là depuis + durée <=> haven't been here + time
    Thanks all for your points of view, that's gold :thumbsup:
     
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