Es probable que - subjunctive / indicative

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  • Evancito

    New Member
    English United States
    Hola! Se usa "Es probable que" con subjuntivo porque se expresa "duda/posibilidad". Además podés decir: Puede ser que, Es posibile que, Quizás, y Tal Vez. Con "Es probable que" no estás diciendo que estás seguro asi que tenés que poner "subjunctivo"! Espero que hayas entendido sino pregtunáme y te puedo explicar mejor!
     
    Evancito said:
    Hola! Se usa "Es probable que" con subjuntivo porque se expresa "duda/posibilidad". Además podés decir: Puede ser que, Es posibile que, Quizás, y Tal Vez. Con "Es probable que" no estás diciendo que estás seguro asi que tenés que poner "subjunctivo"! Espero que hayas entendido sino pregtunáme y te puedo explicar mejor!
    Evancito,
    Gracias por tu ayuda. That is exactly my point. If "Yo creo que.." and "Yo pienso que..." are used in the indicative then it makes sense that "Es probable que". "Yo creo" and "Yo pienso" express some doubt and possibility. If they expressed certainty then the person would have said "Yo sé que ...".

    It looks like I will just have to memorize this as to me it seems to defy logic. Sorry, I wrote in English because I am about to crash for some Zssss.

    Drei
     

    Evancito

    New Member
    English United States
    Está bien... entiendo lo que estás diciendo y yo tampoco sé por qué es así! Es algo que no vamos a entender nunca! ;) Yo también tenía dudas con "es probable que" asi que no te preocupes! Ya vas a entender.

    Suerte.

    Evancito
     

    Rayines

    Senior Member
    Castellano/Argentina
    The reason subjunctive is used after “no creo, no supongo, etc” has to do with a different use of subjunctive that has nothing to do with hypothetical or potential action.
    Nevertheless, they have to do with a sort of hesitation: The affirmative "Yo creo/me parece/pienso que" have a similarar meaning, in the sense of an affirmation. And the respective negative: "Yo no creo/pienso/No me parece que" are similar to "Es posible que/tal vez" in the sense of a doubt or probability.(Believe it or not :eek: ).
     

    mhp

    Senior Member
    American English
    Rayines said:
    Nevertheless, they have to do with a sort of hesitation: The affirmative "Yo creo/me parece/pienso que" have a similarar meaning, in the sense of an affirmation. And the respective negative: "Yo no creo/pienso/No me parece que" are similar to "Es posible/supongo que/tal vez" in the sense of a doubt or probability.(Believe it or not :eek: ).
    Hi Inés,

    I’m not sure if I understand you. Of course, “supongo que” is not similar to “es posible que” as I just explained. From you post it seems that you are saying that they are the same thing! As for “no creo que” being similar to “es posible que”, I’m not sure if I agree with that. For example, consider:

    No puedo creer que me hayas dejado, ¡te odio!

    There does not seem to be anything potential, hypothetical, or doubtful in fact that “me has dejado”. So why is a subjunctive used? Not all uses of subjective can be attributed to probability and doubt.
     

    Rayines

    Senior Member
    Castellano/Argentina
    Hello: I tried to simplify. But now I correct:

    1) "Supongo que" isn't the same thing that "es posible que" (I've corrected it in my original post). "Supongo que" can be followed by Indicative.

    2)
    As for “no creo que” being similar to “es posible que”, I’m not sure if I agree with that
    I consider them both probabilities: "No creo que llueva", "Es posible que llueva".
    No puedo creer que me hayas dejado, ¡te odio!
    I didn't say "no puedo creer", but "no creo que"; don't you think it would change a little the nuance?: "No creo que me hayas dejado"
    Not all uses of subjective can be attributed to probability and doubt
    No, por supuesto, pero yo me estaba refiriendo a esos casos, y creí que era bastante aplicable a los ejemplos dados.
    De todas maneras, no soy experta en subjuntivo :). (And I mix English with Spanish....)
     

    mhp

    Senior Member
    American English
    Thank you Inés. I really appreciate what you have to say. It is always better to hear it from the horse’s mouth than some dusty grammar book. ¿no crees? :)
     

    Socalcool

    New Member
    CA
    English USA
    'Es probable' is an impersonal expression that does not affirm the truth, doesn't express a certainty etc., therefore it must use the subjunctive because 1) it introduces a second clause after que (clause= subject and verb) and 2) because impersonal expressions always require the subjunctive because they don't affirm the truth, etc. The requirement here is that there be two clauses.
    Creo que... is not an impersonal expression, but requires the subjunctive or the indicative depending on whether the speaker is expressing their perspective with confidence or not. If the speaker is confident, the verb in the next clause is in the indicative, indicating as much. If not, then the subjunctive is used. In language learning environments, non natives are taught that no creer que always requires the subj. while creer que needs the indicative; this however is merely a simplification in order to facilitate the process.
     

    Brazilian dude

    Senior Member
    Portuguese - Brazil
    Gracias por tu ayuda. That is exactly my point. If "Yo creo que.." and "Yo pienso que..." are used in the indicative then it makes sense that "Es probable que". "Yo creo" and "Yo pienso" express some doubt and possibility. If they expressed certainty then the person would have said "Yo sé que ...".
    You have the right thinking for Italian.
    Spanish: Creo que él me ama.
    Italian: Credo che egli mi ami (subjunctive!).

    Brazilian dude
     

    Inés06

    Senior Member
    Spanish Spain
    Brazilian dude said:
    You have the right thinking for Italian.
    Spanish: Creo que él me ama.
    Italian: Credo che egli mi ami (subjunctive!).

    Brazilian dude
    Se ve que los españoles tenemos más confianza que los italianos en lo que creemos ;)
     

    Rayines

    Senior Member
    Castellano/Argentina
    Se ve que los españoles tenemos más confianza que los italianos en lo que creemos ;)
    Jajajjjajj...¿Será por eso que los argentinos, que descendemos mayoritariamente de los italianos, somos tan desconfiados? (Aunque no lo reflejemos en la gramática)
     

    Outsider

    Senior Member
    Portuguese (Portugal)
    drei_lengua said:
    Hello everyone,

    Is a phrase that starts with "Es probable que.." use the subjunctive or indicative? Here is why I ask:

    "Es probable que" to me is like "Yo creo que". The latter uses indicative so why not the former?

    Gracias,
    Drei
    See, this is why I don't like to define the subjunctive as a "mood that denotes doubt". Whenever you assign a probability to an event, you use the subjunctive. It doesn't matter if the probability is 10%, 50%, or 90%.

    P.S. Although I suppose that even with 90% probability there is still uncertainty in the remaining 10%.
     

    AkronJen

    Member
    USA, english
    So...if you said it is NOT probable that...would it be subjunctive also? (or indicative)

    No es probable que la clase termine temprano? (subjunctive)
    No es probable que la clase termina temprano? (indicative)

    As a native English speaker to me if you are saying it is not probable....that is also indicating doubt/uncertainty....

    Thanks!
     

    Rayines

    Senior Member
    Castellano/Argentina
    So...if you said it is NOT probable that...would it be subjunctive also? (or indicative)

    No es probable que la clase termine temprano? (subjunctive)
    No es probable que la clase termina temprano? (indicative)

    As a native English speaker to me if you are saying it is not probable....that is also indicating doubt/uncertainty....

    Thanks!
    Siempre subjuntivo.
     

    Coffeemachtspass

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    Drei,

    Spanish has a very high bar for Truth, and Probably just doesn't get over it.

    Creer and Pensar are declarations of what the speaker takes to be facts about the world, so they require indicative, even if the speaker is wrong or crazy.
    Ex,
    I think your unicorn eats too much.
    Creo que tu unicornio come demasiado. (Indicative. It doesn't matter that unicorns don't exist; it matters that the speaker declared it to be so by using 'creo'.)

    Good luck on the exam.
     
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