1. Bonjour,
    I don't know whether this is an unfamiliar construction in French or whether it is poorly worded. I'm trying to translate it into English. There is no context as it is just one of the jobs done by the person in his career working at a bank. "et à l’outil CRM" seems to have been added in the middle and breaks the flow of the sentence. What does it mean to French native speakers - that the sales assistants' training requirements will be assessed and then they will be trained on a CRM (customer relation management) tool? Thanks!

    Context: "Recueil des besoins de formation commerciale et à l’outil CRM des 60 vendeurs des marchés belge et luxembourgeois."

    If it helps, the person said in another place that he "trained 60 staff on their new CRM tool."

  2. jetset

    jetset Senior Member

    You can read it this way :

    Recueil des besoins de formation :
    - [formation] commerciale
    - [formation] à l’outil CRM

    Training requests in sale techniques, and on the CRM tool.
  3. Wordsmyth

    Wordsmyth Senior Member

    Location: Mostly SW France
    Native language: English (BrE)
    That's how I read it.

  4. Thanks very much, jetset. Your explanation has made it much clearer now. You've drawn my attention to the fact that "commerciale" in this context could mean sales (although "en/à la vente" is the more explicit term). So, how about, Assessment of the training requirements of 60 sales’ assistants, working in the Belgian and Luxembourg markets, in sales techniques and on the CRM tool?

  5. L'irlandais

    L'irlandais Senior Member

    Dreyeckland/Alsace region
    Ireland: English-speaking ♂
    "Customer Relationship management" software, is (as I understand it) simply a database into which all one's company files, and emails, letters are stored for rapid retrival.
  6. Wordsmyth

    Wordsmyth Senior Member

    Location: Mostly SW France
    Native language: English (BrE)
    Call me picky, BN, but (1) even with bracketing commas there's a risk of that being read as "working ... in sales techniques, etc", rather than "training requirements in ... sales techniques, etc"; (2) there's no mention of an évaluation, so something like "identification" might be better than "assessment"; (3) vendeur may translate as "sales assistant" (no apostrophe) in a shop, but in the worlds of industry and finance vendeurs would be upset about being called assistants: they often have high-flying titles, but at the very least they'd be "salespeople"; (4) commercial training often covers more than just sales techniques.

    I'd probably go for something like "Identification of commercial and CRM-tool training needs of the 60 salespeople working in the Belgian and Luxembourg markets".
    I've worked with companies whose CRM systems are much more than that, including live tracking and interpretation of customer perception, financial performance tracking, market opportunity modelling, trend analyses, etc. But let's not go off topic.

  7. Thanks to you, l'Irlandais and Wordsmyth, for your posts which I've only just seen. Wordsmyth - I like your alternative wording and order. I preferred using assessment which I thought was clearer than the original identification - but it could be used. Now, this is potentially a whole other can of worms but an English teacher said that because the term meant assistant of sales, it was correct to put the anglo saxon gentitive apostrophe after sales... although this is not seen on Google results ever.
  8. Wordsmyth

    Wordsmyth Senior Member

    Location: Mostly SW France
    Native language: English (BrE)
    I don't want to go off-topic, BN, but suffice to say that if I met that teacher we'd have a debate on our hands! First, an assistant is normally "an assistant to" (not of) a person or function. Even if it were of, there are many phrases where of doesn't denote possession (a man of distinction, the best of luck, ...). Finally, if his "sales' assistant" were correct, then we'd also have a "marketing's executive", a "maintenance's technician", a "translations' department", etc — which we don't. All this points to sales assistant being a noun phrase in which sales is an attributive noun, qualifying assistant ... so no apostrophe. ('Nuff said.:p)

  9. Yes, I agree - this is highlighted by what you said "marketing's executive," etc. This is why it's not seen on Google. :D

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