Etymology/All languages: strange / stranger / foreign

[Włoskipolak 72]

Hello

I was just thinking of the origin of strange / stranger / foreign in my language.., and it seems to be a little different than in English.
I am curious how you say (write) it in your language ?

strange - late 13c., straunge, "from elsewhere, foreign, unknown, unfamiliar, not belonging to the place where found," from Old French estrange "foreign, alien, unusual, unfamiliar, curious; distant; inhospitable; estranged, separated"

stranger - late 14c., "unknown person, foreigner," from strange + -er, or else from Old French estrangier "foreigner" (Modern French étranger), from estrange.

foreign - c. 1300, ferren, foran, foreyne, in reference to places, "outside the boundaries of a country;" of persons, "born in another country," from Old French forain "strange, foreign; outer, external, outdoor; remote, out-of-the-way" (12c.), from Medieval Latin foraneus "on the outside, exterior,"

Polish

dziwny, obcy = strange

Inherited from Proto-Slavic *divьnъ, from *divъ (“miracle, wonder”)

dziwić się = wonder

obcy = foreign

zagraniczny =foreign (external)

Inherited from Proto-Slavic *obьťь
Old East Slavic: обьчии (obĭčii)
Russian: о́бчий (óbčij) (''obsolete'')
Czech: obec (“community”)

nieznajomy = stranger

nie + znajomy = familiar, acquaintance

Inherited from Old Polish znajemy, from Proto-Slavic *znajemъ, present passive participle of *znàti (“to be acquainted with, to know”)

 

[Yendred]

from Old French estrange

Which has given Moden French étrange (strange, odd, weird), not to be confused with étranger (foreign, foreigner).
What about in Italian?

I didn't know the connection between English foreign and French forain!
Nowadays, forain is associated with foire (fair) but apparently indeed they have a different origin.

 

[Welsh_Sion]

Cymraeg/Welsh

dieithr (adj.) alien, foreign, exotic, strange
person (n.m.) dieithr a foreigner / a stranger

@Yendred probably knows that Camus's novel, l'Etranger has the two titles in English translation.

 

[Yendred]

@Yendred probably knows that Camus's novel, l'Etranger has the two titles in English translation.

No I didn't know that!
The Stranger and The Outsider, according to Wikipedia.

 

[Welsh_Sion]

There's also The Outsider - but I think The Stranger is the most commonly used version in English translation.

 

[Welsh_Sion]

Perhaps I was mistaken then that 'The Foreigner' does not exist as a translation of Camus's work, but I noticed a Czech site (in English) uses the expression ...

What is surely true is that l'étranger has at least these three meanings: The Stranger, The Outsider and The Foreigner – The Oxford Student

 

[Yendred]

The Stranger, The Outsider and The Foreigner – The Oxford Student

Interesting article thank you

Exploring the minefield of meaning is a difficult task, but an enjoyable one; a form of mental yoga, stretching meanings and contorting sentence structure until the original intent of the author is adequately conveyed.

 

[Penyafort]

Catalan:

estrany -a /əs'tɾaɲ/ (From Latin extrāneus 'foreign, strange', from extrā 'outside' + -āneus)

(adjective) 1, strange, odd, weird; 2 unfamiliar, unknown; 3, foreign, alien​

(noun) stranger, foreigner, outsider​

estranger -a /əstɾəɲ'ʒe/ (Taken from Old French estrangier)

(adjective) foreign​

(noun 1: person) foreigner​

(noun 2) foreign countries; a l'estranger: abroad​

forà -ana /fu'ɾa/ (From a Latin *forānus 'outsider', from forās 'outside')

(adjective) 1, outer, from outside; 2, foreign​

foraster -a /fuɾəs'te/ (Probably from forester, meaning from the forest, outside town)

(adjective) foreign​

(noun) foreigner, stranger [Specially with regard to a village; forasters are not necessarily from a different country, just strangers there]​

metec (from Latin metoecus, from Ancient Greek μέτοικος, from meta- + oikos 'changing home')

(noun) 1, metic; 2, a resident alien [Usage is uncommon]​

NOTE
rar -a (from Latin rarus) means 'rare, uncommon, anomalous, weird'. Using it for 'strange', specially with the word raro (even if pronounced as /'raɾu/), is an interference from Spanish and not accepted in the standard.

 

[AutumnOwl]

Swedish:
Främmande - can be used about both things and about people, meaning something strange or someone strange, a stranger. Somthing distant, from (far) away, compare English from -> främ(ande).
Främmande länder, främmande seder - Foreign countries, foreign customs, or Strange countries, strange customs.
The word främmande can also be used for visitors/guests, a visit from someone outside the family. (Vi får främmande - we are getting guests)

Främling - a stranger, a foreigner, it's about people.
Han är främling här - He's a stranger/foreigner here.

 

[Awwal12]

Russian:
странный (stránnyi) "strange, weird, odd" (from OCS strana "side, country"; *not* a cognate to Eng. strange);

иностранный (inostránnyi) "foreign" (lit. "other-country-ish");
заграничный (zagraníchnyi) "from abroad", (in stable expressions) "involving foreign travelling"; cf. заграница (zagranítsa) "foreign countries", lit. "behind-border";
зарубежный (zarubézhnyi) "located abroad"; lit. "behind-boundary-ish";

незнакомец (neznakómets) "stranger", "unknown, unfamiliar person" (literary);
незнакомый (neznakómyi) "unfamiliar", "unknown", also potentially substantivised as "stranger";
чужой (chuzhóy) "not one's own", "alien", also potentially substantivised as "stranger";
чужак (chuzhák) "stranger", "non-local person", "alien" (negative);
посторонний (postorónniy) "outside", lit. "on-side-ish"; subst. "stranger", "someone not belonging to the organization".

 

[apmoy70]

Greek:

Strange: «Παράξενος, -νη, -νο» [paˈɾak͡s̠e̞no̞s̠] (masc.), [paˈɾak͡s̠e̞ni] (fem.), [paˈɾak͡s̠e̞no̞] --> unusual, unfamiliar, awkward, curious < Classical Greek adjective «παράξενος, -νος, -νον» /paˈrak͡senos/ (masc. or fem.), /paˈrak͡senon/ (neut.) --> counterfeit, strange, extraordinary, a compound: Prefix & preposition «παρά» /paˈra/ + adj. «ξένος» /ˈk͡senos/ (for etymology see below).

Stranger: «Ξένος, -νη, -νο» [ˈk͡s̠e̞no̞s̠] (masc.), [ˈk͡s̠e̞ni] (fem.), [ˈk͡s̠e̞no̞] (neut.) --> foreign, alien, extraneous, outsider < Classical adj. «ξένος, -νη, -νον» /ˈk͡senos/ (masc.), /ˈk͡senɛː/ (fem.), /ˈk͡senon/ (neut.) --> guest-friend, stranger, wanderer, refugee, foreigner, hireling (Ionic «ξεῖνος» /ˈk͡sêːnos/, Doric «ξένϝος» /ˈk͡senwos/); per Beekes its etymology is unclear:

The semantic agreement with the old PIE word for 'foreigner, guest', seen in Lat. hostis [m.] 'foreigner, enemy', Go. gasts 'guest', Proto-Slavic *gostь 'guest', IE *gʰosti-, has led to attempts to connect these with ξένος, assuming a root etymology *gʰes-. The word ξένος could be Pre-Greek

Foreign: Either «ξένος» (vernacular) or more formally,
«Αλλοδαπός, -πή, -πό» [alo̞ðaˈpo̞s̠] (masc.), [alo̞ðaˈpi] (fem.), [alo̞ðaˈpo̞] (neut.) --> foreign < Classical adj. «αλλοδαπός, -πή, -πόν» /al.lodaˈpos/ (masc.), /al.lodaˈpɛː/ (fem.), /al.lodaˈpon/ (neut.) --> from another land, foreign, a compound: Prefix & adjective «ἄλλος» /ˈal.los/ + second member in inseparable compounds (meaning it's never found alone) «-απός» /-aˈpos/ < IE *-nkʷo- (cf. Latin -inquus, Proto-Germanic *-ingaz) with the - δ - /d/ being a pronominal marker which expresses doubt.

 

[Panceltic]

Slovenian:

čuden = strange, weird (connected to čudo = miracle)

čudak = a weirdo

tuj = strange, foreign [this is cognate to Polish cudzy which you haven't mentioned]

tujec = a stranger, a foreigner

tujina = abroad

neznanec = an unknown person

 

[Awwal12]

čudak = a weirdo

Cf. Rus. чудак (chudák, id.). I must stress that it is *not* connected to чужак "alien" (which goes back to P.-Sl. *ťuď-, not *čud-, and these two have different further etymologies).

 

[Włoskipolak 72]

Which has given Moden French étrange (strange, odd, weird), not to be confused with étranger (foreign, foreigner).
What about in Italian?

I didn't know the connection between English foreign and French forain!
Nowadays, forain is associated with foire (fair) but apparently indeed they have a different origin.

Merci Yendred.

What if I want to say: what a strange guy = ''Quel drôle de type'' or maybe ''Quel homme étrange'' would be better ?

 

[Włoskipolak 72]

Cymraeg/Welsh

dieithr (adj.) alien, foreign, exotic, strange
person (n.m.) dieithr a foreigner / a stranger

@Yendred probably knows that Camus's novel, l'Etranger has the two titles in English translation.

Thanks Welsh_Sion

So basically there is a word ''dieithr'' ?

di- (intensifying prefix) +‎ eithr (“except, beyond”), from Proto-Celtic *ektro, from Proto-Indo-European *h₁eǵʰs (compare Latin exter) with the comparative suffix *-teros.Cognate with Irish eachtrán (“alien”)

 

[Włoskipolak 72]

No I didn't know that!
The Stranger and The Outsider, according to Wikipedia.

I didn't know that either..

''L’Étranger. In French, this word carries three associated but nevertheless distinct meanings: the stranger, the foreigner and the outsider. All of these words have some degree of claim to representing the French title, and conveying Camus’ intentions, but none of them can truly represent the meaning of the original word. As it is, the title is usually translated as either The Outsider or The Stranger, although The Outsider proves the less popular choice; probably due to the phonic similarity between ‘stranger’ and the original title.''


The Stranger, The Outsider and The Foreigner – The Oxford Student

 

[Yendred]

''Quel drôle de type'' or maybe ''Quel homme étrange''

Both are correct, but ''Quel drôle de type'' is more idiomatic and colloquial, while ''Quel homme étrange'' is more formal.

 

[Włoskipolak 72]

Catalan:

estrany -a /əs'tɾaɲ/ (From Latin extrāneus 'foreign, strange', from extrā 'outside' + -āneus)

(adjective) 1, strange, odd, weird; 2 unfamiliar, unknown; 3, foreign, alien​

(noun) stranger, foreigner, outsider​

estranger -a /əstɾəɲ'ʒe/ (Taken from Old French estrangier)

(adjective) foreign​

(noun 1: person) foreigner​

(noun 2) foreign countries; a l'estranger: abroad​

forà -ana /fu'ɾa/ (From a Latin *forānus 'outsider', from forās 'outside')

(adjective) 1, outer, from outside; 2, foreign​

foraster -a /fuɾəs'te/ (Probably from forester, meaning from the forest, outside town)

(adjective) foreign​

(noun) foreigner, stranger [Specially with regard to a village; forasters are not necessarily from a different country, just strangers there]​

metec (from Latin metoecus, from Ancient Greek μέτοικος, from meta- + oikos 'changing home')

(noun) 1, metic; 2, a resident alien [Usage is uncommon]​

NOTE
rar -a (from Latin rarus) means 'rare, uncommon, anomalous, weird'. Using it for 'strange', specially with the word raro (even if pronounced as /'raɾu/), is an interference from Spanish and not accepted in the standard.

Thanks Penyafort

I think Catalan, as well as Italian and Portuguese, are very close in this case..
Metec is quite interesting (from Latin metoecus, from Ancient Greek μέτοικος, from meta- + oikos 'changing home')

Italian

strange = strano, bizzarro, sconosciuto.

stranger = straniero (a), estraneo , forestiero.

forestièro (meno com. forestière; ant. o pop. forastièro, forastière) s. m. (f. -a) e agg. [dal provenz. forestier, der. del lat. foris «fuori»].

foreign = straniero (a), estraneo.

 

[Włoskipolak 72]

Swedish:
Främmande - can be used about both things and about people, meaning something strange or someone strange, a stranger. Somthing distant, from (far) away, compare English from -> främ(ande).
Främmande länder, främmande seder - Foreign countries, foreign customs, or Strange countries, strange customs.
The word främmande can also be used for visitors/guests, a visit from someone outside the family. (Vi får främmande - we are getting guests)

Främling - a stranger, a foreigner, it's about people.
Han är främling här - He's a stranger/foreigner here.

Thanks AutumnOwl.

I was curious to know the etymology;
The current form ending in -ande (normally indicating a present participle) was used already in Old Swedish, but the more original form främmad lives on in spoken dialects in Götaland (including Närke) and is sometimes used in written poetry. Traces back to Old Saxon fremithi and Old High German framadi, fremidi, meaning "removed from". Ultimately derived from Proto-Germanic *framaþiz. This in turn is derived from fram, with roots in the indo-European pro-, also related to English preposition from. ("Främmad", SAOB). Cognate with Norwegian fremmed, English fremd, German fremd, Dutch vreemd.

 

[Włoskipolak 72]

Russian:
странный (stránnyi) "strange, weird, odd" (from OCS strana "side, country"; *not* a cognate to Eng. strange);

иностранный (inostránnyi) "foreign" (lit. "other-country-ish");
заграничный (zagraníchnyi) "from abroad", (in stable expressions) "involving foreign travelling"; cf. заграница (zagranítsa) "foreign countries", lit. "behind-border";
зарубежный (zarubézhnyi) "located abroad"; lit. "behind-boundary-ish";

незнакомец (neznakómets) "stranger", "unknown, unfamiliar person" (literary);
незнакомый (neznakómyi) "unfamiliar", "unknown", also potentially substantivised as "stranger";
чужой (chuzhóy) "not one's own", "alien", also potentially substantivised as "stranger";
чужак (chuzhák) "stranger", "non-local person", "alien" (negative);
посторонний (postorónniy) "outside", lit. "on-side-ish"; subst. "stranger", "someone not belonging to the organization".

Thanks Awwal12

Polish and Russian are also very similar..

странный = dziwny, but дивный = cudowny (восхитительный)

незнако́мец = nieznajomy, cudzoziemiec ( иностранец )

посторонний = obcy
postronny = outsider

 

[Włoskipolak 72]

Greek:

Strange: «Παράξενος, -νη, -νο» [paˈɾak͡s̠e̞no̞s̠] (masc.), [paˈɾak͡s̠e̞ni] (fem.), [paˈɾak͡s̠e̞no̞] --> unusual, unfamiliar, awkward, curious < Classical Greek adjective «παράξενος, -νος, -νον» /paˈrak͡senos/ (masc. or fem.), /paˈrak͡senon/ (neut.) --> counterfeit, strange, extraordinary, a compound: Prefix & preposition «παρά» /paˈra/ + adj. «ξένος» /ˈk͡senos/ (for etymology see below).

Stranger: «Ξένος, -νη, -νο» [ˈk͡s̠e̞no̞s̠] (masc.), [ˈk͡s̠e̞ni] (fem.), [ˈk͡s̠e̞no̞] (neut.) --> foreign, alien, extraneous, outsider < Classical adj. «ξένος, -νη, -νον» /ˈk͡senos/ (masc.), /ˈk͡senɛː/ (fem.), /ˈk͡senon/ (neut.) --> guest-friend, stranger, wanderer, refugee, foreigner, hireling (Ionic «ξεῖνος» /ˈk͡sêːnos/, Doric «ξένϝος» /ˈk͡senwos/); per Beekes its etymology is unclear:


Foreign: Either «ξένος» (vernacular) or more formally,
«Αλλοδαπός, -πή, -πό» [alo̞ðaˈpo̞s̠] (masc.), [alo̞ðaˈpi] (fem.), [alo̞ðaˈpo̞] (neut.) --> foreign < Classical adj. «αλλοδαπός, -πή, -πόν» /al.lodaˈpos/ (masc.), /al.lodaˈpɛː/ (fem.), /al.lodaˈpon/ (neut.) --> from another land, foreign, a compound: Prefix & adjective «ἄλλος» /ˈal.los/ + second member in inseparable compounds (meaning it's never found alone) «-απός» /-aˈpos/ < IE *-nkʷo- (cf. Latin -inquus, Proto-Germanic *-ingaz) with the - δ - /d/ being a pronominal marker which expresses doubt.

Thanks apmoy70

ξένος (xénos, “foreign”), which according to Beekes is Pre-Greek , although the existence of an Avestan cognate (Avestan 𐬑𐬱𐬥𐬀𐬎‎ (xšnau)) questions this.

foreigner, guest = Proto-Indo-European *gʰóstis (“stranger, guest, host, someone with whom one has reciprocal duties of hospitality”). Cognate with German Gast (“guest”), Norwegian gjest (“guest”). Doublet of host, from Latin.

 

[Włoskipolak 72]

Slovenian:

čuden = strange, weird (connected to čudo = miracle)

čudak = a weirdo

tuj = strange, foreign [this is cognate to Polish cudzy which you haven't mentioned]

tujec = a stranger, a foreigner

tujina = abroad

neznanec = an unknown person

Thanks Panceltic

čudak = cudak , cudaczka (dziwak)


Polski
cudować (wymyślać) = fabricate, concot

 

[Welsh_Sion]

Thanks Welsh_Sion

So basically there is a word ''dieithr'' ?

di- (intensifying prefix) +‎ eithr (“except, beyond”), from Proto-Celtic *ektro, from Proto-Indo-European *h₁eǵʰs (compare Latin exter) with the comparative suffix *-teros.Cognate with Irish eachtrán (“alien”)

Perfect resume of what you find in GPC 'dieithr' Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru - only this doesn't include the PIE reference! @Włoskipolak 72

 

[Thealaskansandman]

Hello

I was just thinking of the origin of strange / stranger / foreign in my language.., and it seems to be a little different than in English.
I am curious how you say (write) it in your language ?

strange - late 13c., straunge, "from elsewhere, foreign, unknown, unfamiliar, not belonging to the place where found," from Old French estrange "foreign, alien, unusual, unfamiliar, curious; distant; inhospitable; estranged, separated"

stranger - late 14c., "unknown person, foreigner," from strange + -er, or else from Old French estrangier "foreigner" (Modern French étranger), from estrange.

foreign - c. 1300, ferren, foran, foreyne, in reference to places, "outside the boundaries of a country;" of persons, "born in another country," from Old French forain "strange, foreign; outer, external, outdoor; remote, out-of-the-way" (12c.), from Medieval Latin foraneus "on the outside, exterior,"

Polish

dziwny, obcy = strange

Inherited from Proto-Slavic *divьnъ, from *divъ (“miracle, wonder”)

dziwić się = wonder

obcy = foreign

zagraniczny =foreign (external)

Inherited from Proto-Slavic *obьťь
Old East Slavic: обьчии (obĭčii)
Russian: о́бчий (óbčij) (''obsolete'')
Czech: obec (“community”)

nieznajomy = stranger

nie + znajomy = familiar, acquaintance

Inherited from Old Polish znajemy, from Proto-Slavic *znajemъ, present passive participle of *znàti (“to be acquainted with, to know”)

The words Welsh and Wales evolved from a word meaning "Foreigner".

Walhaz is a reconstructed Proto-Germanic word meaning 'foreigner',[1][2] or more specifically 'Roman', 'Romance-speaker' or '(romanized) Celt', and survives in the English words of 'Wales/Welsh'[1][3] and 'Cornwall.'[4] The term was used by the ancient Germanic peoples to describe inhabitants of the former Roman Empire, who were largely romanised and spoke Latin languages (cf. Valland in Old Norse).[1][3] The adjectival form is attested in Old Norse valskr, meaning 'French'; Old High German walhisk, meaning 'Romance'; New High German welsch, used in Switzerland and South Tyrol for Romance speakers; Dutch Waals 'Walloon'; Old English welisċ, wælisċ, wilisċ, meaning 'Brythonic'. The forms of these words imply that they are descended from a Proto-Germanic form *walhiska-.[3]

Its related to the Norse words Valland and the Valir people, speaking of Roman-Gaul, or Roman controlled lands.