Irrespective of whether your argument that profane and religious roots are never mixed is right or wrong (it is actually wrong, as apmoy70 demonstrated), who claimed the two roots were etymologically related in the first place?Ain't that obvious?
(let's sum it up again)
There's no etymological connection between words "Gaia" and "Earth"!
and that is wrong, plain and simple.Gea, and alternates should not be considered on profane terminology like: soil, land,terrain and similar because it is a religious category that keeps itself apart from the common speech / language.
I am not an expert in Arabic but the Arabic arD, quoted in the beginning, may well be related here.
There is a tendency to label every IE word which has a similar form in Semitic as a Semitic loan,
however it is well known that IE peoples were thriving in Anatolia and the Middle East as far back as 2000 BC so, to be objective, we should also consider an equal possibility of IE loans into Semitic.
Let us put the discussion on somewhat more scientific basis. This is what the etymological dictionary says:
earth (n.) O.E. eorþe "ground, soil, dry land," also used (along with middangeard) for "the (material) world" (as opposed to the heavens or the underworld), from P.Gmc. *ertho (cf. O.Fris. erthe "earth," O.S. ertha, O.N. jörð, M.Du. eerde, Du. aarde, O.H.G. erda, Ger. Erde, Goth. airþa), from PIE root *er- (2) "earth, ground" (cf. M.Ir. -ert "earth"). The earth considered as a planet was so called from c.1400.
The furthest it takes us is the Gothic airþa. According to the Grimm's Law, the Gothic þ would lead us to "proto-IE" dh and to a reconstructed *e(a)rdh. We can not check it on the "proto-language" but we may turn the good old Sanskrit. We readily find there not one, but two suitable words: 1) ardha "side, part; place, region, country" and 2) ardha "half. halved, forming a half; one part of the two". Both are semantically compatible: the first one - if we interpret the ancient meaning of "earth" not as soil but in a more generalised meaning "place, world" (importantly in the etymological dictionary we find that the word "earth" stood for "the (material) world" i.e. not just "soil". The other one is also possible if we recall the Vedic (also IE) cosmogony in which Sky and Earth formed a perpetual union. There are many words for it: rodas n. du. "heaven and earth"; dyāvā "heaven and Earth etc." Therefore, ardha "one part of two" may well be taken as an allegoric name for one half of the union - the earth.
|Traditionally linked to SA kṣam क्षम् 'the ground, earth' (VAS) although the new etymology offered by Guseva is more plausible both semantically and phonetically. Compare the AV zam-, LA humus and GR χαμαί 'on the ground'. The medial /l/ is not present in some RU dialects and SL languages and could be a linking co-articulatory sound (l-epentheticum). Sounds /z/ and /h/ are interchangeable (cp зима zima and hima हिम 'winter'). The agreement in gender (feminine) as well as the long -ā in the Sanskrit word and the corresponding stress on the last vowel in many Slavonic languages. The alternative cognate śyāma श्याम 'black, dark-coloured' proposed by Adelung (ADEL, 14) is also worth considering but it is less plausible phonetically. UA земля́; BY земля́; BG земя́; SRB зѐмља; SLO zémlja; CZ země; SK zem; PL ziemia; LT žẽmė; LV zеmе; AV zam-; GUS 4|
Sanskrit ardha(half) ->Earth doesnt make much sense,
fyi. all so called Dravidian languages has that word "arai" (half).
Hi Canbek. Bro we are better to say that Slavic and Iranian languages, as well as many other I.E. speeches, share the same root in this case. Kurdish "zev"/"zem" (also found in combinations such as "zimeg" ~ "winter stay", "cold part of the mountain" or "zemher" ~ literally "winter's flour") is a cognate of Avestan "zama-" and they both share the same etymology with Slavic "zhymi" (if I am right) and even Latin "humus*"-from which the very word "human" is derived, literally meaning "earthly".
Which means: dʰ becomes d, d becomes t, and t becomes θ. For example PIE *dʰuro- > Gmc. *dura- > Goth. daur ("door"), PIE *dekm(t) > Gmc. *tehun > Goth. taihun ("ten"), PIE *toi > Gmc. *θai > Goth. þai ("they").Sorry, for a moment I wanted to recall my post. I thought that I misunderstood the Gimm's law. I have just re-checked and it does say
dʰ → d → t → θ/ As for German ort the cardinal meaning is "place". Check the dictionary
/þ/ > /d/ is a regular development in German (cf. English this/German dies, English brother/German Bruder). This shift happened during the Old High German period already where you find spellings with "þ" and with "d" for some words. Even if the form *erþa is not attested (which is the case, to my knowledge) it must still be assumed that the attested form erda is derived from *erþa.I only mentioned ort because I came across some etymologies linking it to Skr. ardh. I agree with you that while Skr. ardh would be acceptable for the German Erde the English earth and Goth. airþa present a problem.
Phosphorus, I fully support you here (see my recent post). However, zem(l)ja - hema "the earth" and zima - hima "winter' derive from different roots.
I too felt that the English word Earth and the Arabic أرض was just a coincidence. But what about kahf = cave and qat3 (cutting)? Could there have been a link somewhere in the distant past between Indo-European and Semitic family of languages?
Well there are several controversial, highly criticized, hypotheses (I'm not endorsing any).I too felt that the English word Earth and the Arabic أرض was just a coincidence. But what about kahf = cave and qat3 (cutting)? Could there have been a link somewhere in the distant past between Indo-European and Semitic family of languages?
All these would be arguments, if the Arabic word were isolated within Semitic. But in combination with Hebrew ארץ and Aramaic ארעא the PS reconstruction *'-r-ṣ́ is almost impossible to reject. The tendency to imports IE plosives as emphatics is because most loans entered Arabic via Aramaic and Aramaic used emphatics to transliterate foreign plosives to avoid the ambiguities of gimel-ghimmel, daleth-dhaleth, etc. This plays no role, if the word is inherited from PS and the hypothetical common ancestor of the IE and Semitic words predates PIE and PS.1. Arabic reverts to initial Hamza-Alif to avoid consonant clusters or vowels
2. Arabic tends to make foreign sounds emphatic. So ض in ارض is an indication as in other words such as ايطاليا
3. Arabic is often undetermined when it comes to plurals of foreign words as we see in the old plural ارضون next to اراض
The third radical (ض) is consistent with an inheritance from PS (< ṣ́) but not with a loan from Aramaic.This means that if ارض is not a borrowing from Indo-European then it might still be a borrowing from Aramaic but not a common semitic word. I am still not convinced.
All those ץ ע ק ש ת as the last third letter of the word "land" are not the part of root but just addition. The root is ערThe PS reconstruction is *ʾarṣ́. In Aramaic, ע/ק is the regular outcome of PS ṣ́ as is ץ in Hebrew and ض in Arabic.
In Semitic, it is part of the root. Russian is not a Semitic language. That is irrelevant here.All those ץ ע ק ש ת as the last third letter of the word "land" are not the part of root but just addition. The root is ער
Russian also has many words from that root of "land": "аршин" ("soil-measurer" about 21/3 foot or 0.711 m), "орать" ("to plough" [soil]), "орало" ("the plough").
بيت has obvious cognates in all Semitic language groups. That certain roots take a somewhat different twist in different language is not a counter argument that the word is native. The most literal translation of منزل into German, e.g., would be Wohnung, a word that really exists in that language. But you wouldn't draw from that the conclusion that Haus and Wohnung can both be native words although they somewhat overlap in meaning.nearly all words that have to do with a house are all borrowings because as I said the Arab house used to be a tent without doors and windows.
To prove that two words are related you can't just point to that they sound similar and have the same meaning. Actually, words with the same origin seldom have exactly the same meaning, and very often have a completely different or opposite meaning, so emphasizing the likeness of meaning doesn't prove anything.Hi there! German-Arabic Erd-ard,
I think, that German Erde (neatherlands: eerd) an arabic *ard/ärd are identic words, like in two dialects of a greater or previous language.
Therefore they don't drevive from one anathoer but thy belong to a greater language family.
Let have a look:
arabic *ard means (ground, earth you are taking from field / Boden/Erde) - and in German we use Erde (in old songs just: Erd') for ground, earth of the field too.
I don't think this is by random or a word just borrowed,
for i have found some more possibly related words in German an Arabic.
Here are some of them:
May i use a text I wrote in German? If I give a short English summmary? (Else one could cancel the German passages)
burg / burj (arabic) (tower) seems to be the same as Burg (German) (tower with houses an wall) or french/english cities: Edinburgh, Strassburg
ich würde die Behauptunng aufstellen, dass das Wort Burg nicht aus dem Arabischen "kommt" - sondern dass unsere Sprachen - Arabisch, Deutsch, Altgriechisch, Hebräisch, weitere - miteinander verwandt sind. Wir sprechen sozusagen verschiedene "Dialekte" einer Vorgängersprache. Beim Burj al Arab fiel mir auf, dass es wie Burg - französisch ausgesporchen - aussieht. Vgl. Burgeoisie. Später entdeckte ich, dass die Ägipter (ich schreibe ausprachegemäß, ich hoffe, das its in der Diskussion okee) tatsächlich burg sagen. Die Altgriechen haben pyrgos (pürgos), was wie im Arabischen Turm heißt. Da b, p, pf quasi das gleiche sind (der eine sprichts so aus, der andere so), ist pürg(os) das gleiche wir Bürg(os) oder Bürg. Das liegt nahe an der Burg oder dem Bürg-er. Bei uns, im Deutschen, ist die Burg auch ein Turm, nur mit Häusern und Mauern oder sogar mit einer ganzen Stadt drumrum: Straßburg, Magdeburg, Edinbourgh.
As i said: if you hve only one or a few word, they mey be loandwords:
Burg allein könnte ein Wanderwort sein, so wie Internetz, Kompjuter usw., das einfach eine Sprache von der anderen übernommen hat.
Zwischen Arabisch und Deutsch habe ich aber eine Reihe von Wörtern entdeckt, die zumindest die Vermutung nahelegen, dass das mehr als Zufall und mehr als bloße Wortübernahme sein könnte. Mit anderen Worten: Ich tippe auf eine Sprachverwandtschaft zwischen Arabisch und Deutsch.
But here are some more:
Habe eine ganze (kleine) Reihe von Wörtern gefunden, die dt.-arab ähnlich sind (Lautfolge) und eine ähnliche Bedeutung haben
zB - *ard, ärd - heißt Boden, Erde -- vgl.dt. Erd', ndl. eerd - engl. earth, or as you said: hebrew eretz (sounds lik German Erz, a kind of stony (earth) with metal inside
Hey, guess: If German an Arabic borrow the "internet" or "pullover" oder "computjer" of English, than that's because we importet the word togeather with the invention, instead of coining a new word.
But earh is a very common word. There's no need to borrow it.
We- in German- have Erde - we don't say "earth". Why should we? Arabic hat "ard", why should thes say earth?
Therefor "internet" is likly to be loaned from English - as there was no internet in all the nations before. But "earth" oder "Erd(e)" or "ard" seems very unlikly to be loaned from anothere language. Therefore they're likly to be related.
Das Wort *ärd/*ard ist ein ziemlich grundlegendes Wort. Also wenn die Burg eine technische Neuerung gewesen sein mag, könnte man sagen: Wow! Die Griechen oder die Araber haben "Vorsprung durch Technik", das übernehmen wir. Wie heißt das Ding denn? Ach, Burg nennt sich das! Ja okee. Und dies komische Blechgehirn, wie nennt man das richtig? Kompjuter!? Ohhh, staun, okee, dann nennen wir das Blechhirn absofort auch Komjuter ...
Aber warum sollte man ein so grundlegendes Wort wie Erd(e), dass es immer überall gibt, aus dem Englischen, Deutschen, Japanischen oder Arabischen entleihen? Als Fremdwort für besondere Dinge: ja: global. Aber Erde an sich ...
Der Duden achtet da gar nicht auf die Ähnlichkeiten mit dem Arabischen! Deutsch: Erde, in alten Liedern: Erd', holländisch: eerd, indogermanisch rekonstruiert: er(t). und Arabisch: auch *ärd. Und alles heitß Boden, Erde (nicht immer: Weltkugel)
Ich finde, diese Ähnlichkeit ist doch gar nicht zu übersehen. Wenn man drauf kommt.
>- hulla/hölla (arabic) - Clothing / Kleidung - vgl. German Hülle (Clothinng is a "Hülle" (kind of surroundig)
>- saba = 7 - SieBen (s+b) >
arabic saba is even nerer to German sieben than the english seven !!!!! 7
- Hausch ca. Hof. vgl. Haus (und Hof) >- looks like swabian pronounciation of "house": s > sch, not only the building itself, but everything around
arabic bachr = sea. In German we have the "Bach", not Johann Sebastian Bach but the Bach meaning brook.
Could bachr meaning sea (Meer) ans Bach meaning brook be the same? Yes it could!
In the language of the nautics (?), in the Seemanssprache, shippermen fall alway into the "Bach", even in the ocean!
german Bach derives from a word meaning stream- and both, the sea and the brook include stream (Strömungen)
I must make a break in writing
there are kalb (dog), German: Das ist ja ein Kalb (dog, normally: young cow)
hilf - Bündnis / alliance - vgl. German hilf(e)/help
the arabic form again is even nearer to German than German to english
arabic: aswat - low German: schwat/ swatt /spoken: shwut/swut - German: schwarz
all the same, meaning: black
Would you borrow the number 7 from another language?
I thing thoses words are related.
Look at Hebrew: alf, coorelated to alpha, and German elf
alpha ist the first (letter), elf ist 10 + one left, the first left, alf (hebr.) ist the first of 1000 = one thounsand (i think)
There are some more word-souples I found in arabic-german.
May be i write about them later.
So lets look if we'll find more and more possible related words betwenn German/English and Arabic/Hebrew
He obviously does not think that there is sufficient reason to suspect an etymological relation of Yir with either earth or with Semitic *ʾarṣ́.Entertain with "Yir"... in Turkics, equivalent to "Earth"