effeundici, the distinction is so subtle for your specific example. Both ‘even if’ and ‘even though’ can be synonyms for ‘despite the fact that’ (nonostante, literally ‘notwithstanding’).
in reality we are certain.[...] even if
I didn’t forget
This BBC webpage, unfortunately only discusses half the meaning of ‘even if’ and blithely ignores the other half.3. Even if he lost his job as Arts Minister, he continued to serve in the government.
Hi again, effeundici! Yes, I would agree with you. In English, if you use 'although' the meaning is clear, but only by context can you determine if 'even if' means 'whether or not' or 'although'. And I'd like to emphasize again that 'even if' actually has two possible meanings (definition with examples in post #16), just like 'anche se' (if I understand you correctly).
I'm not sure, but let me try to rephrase, and you can tell me if I completely missed the mark... Yes, I think that in contexts that are unambiguous, ‘even if’ can be used to mean ‘despite the fact that’, for example:
Maybe there's an AE/BE difference here. Anyway, I subscribe to Brian's advice to the Italians, to avoid "even if" when it means "although".“He continued to serve in the government even if he lost his job.” I personally wouldn't say this!
“We'll go to the sea even if it rains.”But my point remains: ‘even if’ can, in certain contexts, mean ‘despite the fact that’ (i.e. ‘even though’).
(even if = ‘despite the possibility that’—We don’t know if it will rain at the time of departure.)
“Let’s go to the sea even if it’s raining outside.” I wouldn't say this either!
(even if = ‘despite the fact that’—We know for a fact that it’s raining at the moment.)
"He doesn’t speak French even if he goes to France every summer."
(even if = ‘no matter whether’—We have a hypothetical. Actually, I think 'despite the fact that' is also possible here.)
“He can’t speak French even if he does go to France every summer.” Or this!
(even if = ‘despite the fact that’—The fact is he does go every summer.)
I think it could be also a generational difference. I certainly have heard it used as a kind of emphatic ‘although’, and not just to soften any blow. The example I gave from the OAD (New Oxford American Dictionary, 2nd Edition, c.2005) gives the ‘despite the fact that’ (i.e. ‘although’) meaning: “He is a great President, even if he has many enemies.” I don’t see any obfuscating or pretending here, and I doubt the prestigious academic Oxford University Press would record usage that is nonstandard and peculiar. I think we are all agreed on the question of translating from Italian to English. But it's also useful to know the full range of possible usage and meaning of 'even if', just as it is good to know that 'anche se' can mean 'although' (something I didn't know before this thread).
'Even if' is also used in situations where there is certainty, and that does not automatically constitute unnatural or bad usage.Tom, I'm not sure what you mean by "the opposite" of even though, but all your examples, seem like natural and good uses of even if, because there is uncertainty in each situtation. In fact, these are perfect examples of subjunctive usage.
How interestingWell, I find these last examples more natural than the ones I didn't like in post 24.
... I chose those examples precisely because they follow the basic sentence pattern of this one from post 24: 
I was thinking exactly the same thing myself....except for the example re To kill a mockingbird, which I think is a straightforward conditional
I disagree. They follow the definition recorded by the OAD (New Oxford American Dictionary, 2nd Edition, c.2005): "despite the fact that" (which as far as I'm concerned is synonymous with "even though"). That sentence could be read as: "Despite the fact that Atticus lost ..." The sense is much more emphatic than the wimpy "Even when..." Despite the fact that he lost the case, Atticus still won in an important way because he made people think differently about racism. Substituting "even when" fails completely to convey the meaning of the sentence.
It sounds perfectly natural to my AE ears as meaning "despite the fact". As you've pointed out, it could well be the difference between AE and BE usage. I think that there could also be a generational difference. Perhaps it is only recently that this usage of 'even if' has gained enough acceptance to be recorded by the OAD. New usage is generally met with less resistance by the younger generation.
I disagree that you can't use 'despite' here. Here is the passage in full:
The third sentence ('even if he were to lose...he would have made a difference') is my preferred one.I disagree. "Seems to stay dry most of the time, despite the fact that it has been raining" sounds more natural and makes more sense to me context-wise than "even when it has been raining". There is an implicit contrast between the dry ground and the recent rain, hence the adversative sense of "despite the fact".
All your options sound natural to my AE ears as well. I prefer this one. For me, 'even if' is a fixed expression that can mean "despite the fact that". I read 'even if' as an adversative ("despite") expressing an antithesis between his losing and his effect on people's thinking, rather than as a conditional ("supposing that" or "whether or not").In my opinion, 'despite' functions perfectly here without obscuring the meaning:
'Why, then, do you think he agreed to defend Mr Robinson?'
A boy in the back raised his hand.
'He wanted to make a difference. Despite losing, if Atticus could make one person start thinking differently about racism, then he made a difference.'
...
Maybe I'm wrong, but this is what sounds natural to my BE ears!
but the fact is that technically (grammatically or whatever) speaking, in general, even if he lost can mean either even if he did lose (= "despite the fact that he lost") or even if he were to lose/even if he should lose:
@Janey:
Honestly, it's a bad sentence all together, in my opinion.
And I gotta trust my own ears!
I consider this and the sentence about the President to be diplomatic.
For the purpose of translation, I think it’s important to know the complete meaning and usage of ‘even if’, not just the BE version. Let’s take a specific example of standard usage, taken from a mainstream newspaper:
“Life is sweet for 'Pav', even if he does leave a bitter taste in the mouth of some of his rivals.” (source)
The context makes it clear that ‘even if’ means "despite the fact" (nonostante) rather than "despite the possibility that" (anche nel caso che). If you have doubt, please read the article. (We know with certainty that Pav has ticked off some of his rivals: “Many still have an axe to grind against Pav." This is not a hypothetical.) I realize that this usage of ‘even if’ sounds “completely wrong” to many BE ears and to some AE ones, too. But that does not change the fact that this is now considered standard usage in AE by The Oxford American Dictionary. I don’t think English learners should look at this sentence and others like it and think: “This is totally wrong!” It’s not (at least not in AE). Nor should they insist that ‘even if’ can mean only anche nel caso che, and can be used only with situations where there is uncertainty and doubt. If they do, this sentence would indeed seem strange, and it shouldn’t. It’s standard AE, even if it’s not acceptable BE.
‘Although’ as defined by the OAD: “in spite of the fact that, even though”. So what you’re saying is: ‘even if’ = ‘even when’ = ‘despite the fact’ = ‘even though’.
I’d say Va bene! but it’s not bene because in your example ‘even when’ means “whenever”, signaling a hypothetical. My examples in posts 16 and 29 are not hypothetical uses of ‘even if’. Just like anche se!I told you!! 20-30 years and you'll have forgotten the difference!!
