face <among>/<one of> the biggest rises

[grammar-in-use]

Hello everyone,

Source: Passengers won't put up with ever-rising rail fares forever

Successive governments have permitted such increases on the grounds that the cost of investing in and running the rail network should be borne by those who use it, rather than the general taxpayer. Why, the argument goes, should a car-driving pensioner from Lincolnshire have to subsidise the daily commute of a stockbroker from Surrey? Equally, there is a sense that the travails of commuters in the South East, many of whom will face among the biggest rises, have received too much attention compared to those who must endure the relatively poor infrastructure of the Midlands and the North.

1. Does "there is a sense that..." mean "it is reasonable that..." or "it is justifiable that..."?
2. Can we change "face among the biggest rises" to "face one of the biggest rises" without affecting or changing its meaning?

Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[Uncle Jack]

1. Does "there is a sense that..." mean "it is reasonable that..." or "it is justifiable that..."?

"Sense" is used for a way of looking at things. "In one sense" is used to introduce one way of looking at a particular situation. Here with the general "there is", it might be interpreted as "some/many people think that".

2. Can we change "face among the biggest rises" to "face one of the biggest rises" without affecting or changing its meaning?

There are many (people), and they face different rises, so use "some of" rather than "one of".

 

[grammar-in-use]

Thank you very much!

Here with the general "there is", it might be interpreted as "some/many people think that".

So, the "sense" here ("there is a sense that...") is different in meaning from the one in the pattern of "there's no sense in doing something", isn't it?

Is "there is a sense that..." the same meaning as "there is a sense in which..." (e.g. There is a sense in which we are all to blame for the tragedy.)?
In other words, can we change to say "Equally, there is a sense in which the travails of commuters in the South East, ... have received too much attention..."?

 

[Uncle Jack]

So, the "sense" here ("there is a sense that...") is different in meaning from the one in the pattern of "there's no sense in doing something", isn't it?

"Sense" has different meanings in these two uses.

Is "there is a sense that..." the same meaning as "there is a sense in which..." (e.g. There is a sense in which we are all to blame for the tragedy.)?

No, not that I see. However, the use of "there is a sense that" in the original is rather an unusual use, and I could be mistaken.

 

[grammar-in-use]

No, not that I see. However, the use of "there is a sense that" in the original is rather an unusual use, and I could be mistaken.

(1). Equally, there is a sense that the travails of commuters in the South East, ... have received too much attention...
(2). There is a sense in which we are all to blame for the tragedy.

This is how I'd look at it: the that-clause "that the travails of commuters in the South East..." is an appositive clause (to add extra information to "sense"), while "in which we are all to blame for the tragedy" is a relative clause.
Am I right?

 

[Uncle Jack]

(1). Equally, there is a sense that the travails of commuters in the South East, ... have received too much attention...
(2). There is a sense in which we are all to blame for the tragedy.

This is how I'd look at it: the that-clause "that the travails of commuters in the South East..." is an appositive clause (to add extra information to "sense"), while "in which we are all to blame for the tragedy" is a relative clause.
Am I right?

I would say that in the first sentence the clause describes the nature of the sense, rather than adds extra information.
I cannot see how the second sentence can be a relative clause. If you think of "which" as a relative pronoun, what grammatical function does it have in the clause that follows?

 

[grammar-in-use]

If you think of "which" as a relative pronoun, what grammatical function does it have in the clause that follows?

Thanks a lot!
Yes, I think of "which" as a relative pronoun referring back to the antecedent "sense".

(2). There is a sense in which we are all to blame for the tragedy.
=There is a sense + in THE SENSE (=WHICH) we are all to blame for the tragedy.
So, the "which" here functions as an object or a complement of the preposition "in", i.e. in which =in this sense.
That's how I would look at it.

 

[Uncle Jack]

Ah yes, that works: We are all to blame for the tragedy in a (certain) sense.

 

[grammar-in-use]

Ah yes, that works: We are all to blame for the tragedy in a (certain) sense.

Do you still think that the “there’s a sense in which...” does not apply to or isn’t interchangeable with the OP’s “there’s a sense that...”?

Another way to ask is, does it make sense to say “ There is a sense that we are all to blame for the tragedy.”?

 

[Uncle Jack]

Another way to ask is, does it make sense to say “ There is a sense that we are all to blame for the tragedy.”?

It might make sense, but I don't think it would convey the same meaning.

 

[Dingyu Soong]

"Sense" is used for a way of looking at things. "In one sense" is used to introduce one way of looking at a particular situation. Here with the general "there is", it might be interpreted as "some/many people think that".

"Sense" is used for a way of looking at things. "In one sense" is used to introduce one way of looking at a particular situation. Here with the general "there is", it might be interpreted as "some/many people think that".

There are many (people), and they face different rises, so use "some of" rather than "one of".

So what is the object of "face" here? "Among" is a preposition, so I think the object of "face" is "travails".

 

[Uncle Jack]

So what is the object of "face" here? "Among" is a preposition, so I think the object of "face" is "travails".

The object of "face" is "rises". This is then modified by "among the biggest", which functions as an adjective.

 

[River Itchen]

The object of "face" is "rises". This is then modified by "among the biggest", which functions as an adjective.

So, "among the biggest" is an idiom or a fixed phrase?