1. tacitus1

    tacitus1 Senior Member

    East Coast, USA
    American English
    It is in reference to the recent U.S. Air Force Academy fiasco (i.e., the story of the black cadet who pretended to be the victim of racist graffiti that he himself wrote). It has been variously labelled by its critics as a "hate hoax" and a "fake hate crime".

    According to the WR dictionary, a "hate crime" is a "crime haineux". A "fake hate crime" would thus seem to be translated by "faux crime haineux". Would that not in its turn make a "hate hoax" an "imposture haineuse"?


    Or perhaps it should be "crime de haine", after all. Still, the question stands. Would the "hate hoax" in this case be an "imposture de haine"?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2018
  2. Itisi

    Itisi Senior Member

    Paris/Hastings UK
    English UK/French
    I don't see it. 'Faux crime' and 'hate' are not synonymous, so it doesn't work...
     
  3. tacitus1

    tacitus1 Senior Member

    East Coast, USA
    American English
    I'm sorry, I don't follow. Both of these compounds ("fake hate crime" / "hate hoax") are in current usage. Some googling turned up a few occasions of "faux crime haineux" in French texts. The question thus is, what to make of "hate hoax"?
     
  4. plantin Senior Member

    français
    Crime haineux simulé.
    Simulation de crime haineux.
     
  5. tacitus1

    tacitus1 Senior Member

    East Coast, USA
    American English
    Thanks, that would work for "fake hate crime" but what of "hate hoax"? Is there a word other than "canular" capable of conveying the deliberately mischieviousness of the phenomenon while not detracting from its destructive, irresponsible aspect?
     
  6. Itisi

    Itisi Senior Member

    Paris/Hastings UK
    English UK/French
    That is what I was answering at #4 (for what it's worth...)
     
  7. plantin Senior Member

    français
    Machination, manipulation haineuse ?
     
  8. tacitus1

    tacitus1 Senior Member

    East Coast, USA
    American English
    It appears that we may be inventing new French vocabulary with this thread. I propose:

    hate crime = crime de haine simulé (but why not simply "faux crime de haine"?)

    hate hoax = imposture de haine? fraude de haine? manipulation de haine?
     
  9. Itisi

    Itisi Senior Member

    Paris/Hastings UK
    English UK/French
    'Hate crime' would just be 'crime de haine'

    'Hate hoax': 'faux crime de haine'. Those other suggestions don't work.
     
  10. plantin Senior Member

    français
    crime de haine simulé: it's evident that the crime itself is faked (because of masculine adjective); the same with "Simulation de crime haineux."
    faux crime de haine: what is faked ? the crime (faux crime / de haine) or the fact that it is a hate crime, and so, possibly another type of crime, masked as a hate crime ? (faux / crime de haine); that's why it doesn't work for me, it's ambiguous.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  11. tacitus1

    tacitus1 Senior Member

    East Coast, USA
    American English
    Itisi: I would not translate "hate hoax" as "faux crime de haine" since the translation substitutes "crime" for "hoax", something very different.

    Plantin: I suppose you are right and "faux crime de haine" leaves unresolved an underlying ambiguity. I would thus concur: "crime de haine simulé" is the best option for "fake hate crime".
     
  12. plantin Senior Member

    français
    To be clearer, a faux / crime de haine could be by example, a crime of passion, but the crime itself was not faked, someone was really killed, and the murder has staged the crime, in order to make believe that it is a hate crime.
    With faux crime / de haine, someone wanted to make believe to a hate crime, but the crime didn't occur.
     
  13. Itisi

    Itisi Senior Member

    Paris/Hastings UK
    English UK/French
    Neither would I, actually! It was a lapsus, I meant 'hate crime hoax'.

    The thing is, there are examples online of 'faux crime de haine', but I can't see any for 'crime de haine simulé.
     
  14. tacitus1

    tacitus1 Senior Member

    East Coast, USA
    American English
    Yes, I also see that "faux crime de haine" is in use in French.

    Interesting point, Plantin. You may have here revealed an ambiguity also present (if better concealed) in the original English: for a "fake hate crime" can be a real crime in which the motive is faked (i.e., racist vandalism purporting to be motivated by hate but actually perpetrated by its ostensible victim, as in the Airforce Academy example) as well as a crime that never occurred (e.g., a false report that someone has been a victim of racist assault when no assault in fact took place).
     
  15. plantin Senior Member

    français
    :D
    I try to find "The thing is, there are examples online", but I can't find either; is it correct ? :confused:
    How many correct combinations of words does french allow, you think ? Are they all online ? It would be so sad...
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  16. Itisi

    Itisi Senior Member

    Paris/Hastings UK
    English UK/French
    Sorry plantin, but I can't understand your question...
     
  17. tacitus1

    tacitus1 Senior Member

    East Coast, USA
    American English
  18. mehoul Senior Member

    french
    A mon avis "crime de haine" ou "crime haineux" ne sont pas très répandus en France. Dans un cas comme celui-là on parlerait plutôt d'acte raciste. Le mot "crime" est réservé à des choses vues comme plus graves (techniquement, ce sont les infractions qui relèvent de la cour d'assises).
     
  19. tartopom Senior Member

    Nougatville
    French
    What about
    Fraude d'incitation à la haine raciale / fake hate crime
    Imposture de haine raciale / imposture d'incitation à la haine raciale / hate hoax
    ??
     

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