It is very interesting... The first thing that poor little school children have to learn when they get into school at the age of 6 or 7 is that they must not raise the intonation towards the end of the sentence. Sometimes not even in the case of questions! For example,The interesting thing about Hungarian, I found, was that they raise their intonation towards the end of the sentence, even if it`s not a question. Very few languages have this, I believe.
Sooner or later we have to, unless we use English.P.S. Hakro!! You Finns never study Estonian anyway! So what is there to bother about???
You're right Vince.They shouldn't be too related, since Magyar is part of the Ugric family while Finnish is part of the Finno-Permic family. The Sami languages are actually in the latter family, and since there isn't much intelligibility between them and Finnish, there's probably next to nothing between Finnish and Magyar. Though I heard there is a small amount of intelligibility between Finnish and Estonian. (is that true?)
Yes!Although I cannot understand Finish, when I hear Finnish I feel it is close to my native language. The same about Turkish. When I hear Russian, Chinese, Greek they do not evoke any feeling, they sound strange, distant. I don't know about other Hungarians but both Finnish and Turkish sound rather funny to me. I wonder if Finns or Turks feel the same about Hungarian.
You might not: there are many more, like Estonian and a number of lesser-known (and surely lesser-spoken) Finno-Ugric languages in Russia.When I started studying linguistics we learned that both are in the Finno-Ugric family - the only two members, I might add - and that linguists have an on-going debate whether they are related or not. I've heard mostly for-arguments.
I think the good intercomprehension between Danish and Norwegian is due to the fact that Norway stayed a little bit too long under Danish reign and that Bokmål (the less puristic norm of the Norwegian language) is heavily influenced by Danish, whereas Nynorsk (the more puristic, but lesser-spoken norm of the language) is based on more conservative western Norwegian dialects.But intelligibility does not necessarily have anything to do with the relationship between two languages. An example: Swedish and Danish (mentioned earlier). Linguists place these two languages on the same sub-chain, whereas Norwegian is further apart, but I speak Danish and understand Norwegian much better than Swedish (I have a personal theory that it has something to do with the development/expansion of vocabulary, but that is not proven...). When the crown prince of Norway got married I had no problems following the ceremony, but if you're from southern Sweden, me might be better off speaking English!
I agree, the mutual intelligibility is zero, but I wonder how many false friends we could find between Hungarian/Finnish and let's say Hungarian/German. And I do not mean international, Latin words in the latter case. Just open a Finnish-Hungarian dictionary, and I am not speaking about words after conjugation or declension, that's why I think there is some similarity to feel. Or if we could not find many false friends, we could find rhyming words easier.A Hungarian doesn't understand Finnish and neither vica versa, and maybe they don't find their languages just by hearing similar. But I'm sure a foreigner would find these two similar - because of the often usage of vowels![]()
Exactly. Finnish is claimed to sound "dull" and "monotonous", but would you, Encolpius, call Hungarian "dull"?Italian also uses many vowels but I cannot say it sounds like Hungarian, so I think the important things should be intonation and maybe the music or what you call it.
suhuäänne would be sibilant in English, although [tʃ, dʒ, dz] etc. are usually called affricates rather than sibilants.Exactly. Finnish is claimed to sound "dull" and "monotonous", but would you, Encolpius, call Hungarian "dull"?
There are more differences in the pronunciation. Hungarian has many... what do they call them in English... suhuäänteet, eg. ʃ, tʃ, ʒ, dʒ, dz, z. Finnish has only s and ʃ. Besides, there aren't many diphtongs in Hungarian. In Finnish, they're more common.
Well, I personally do not. Yes, the both use vowels willingly, but it seems that in Finnish much more words end in vowels. For instance, in the last example provided by Encolpius I've found only two such words ("a"But I'm sure a foreigner would find these two similar - because of the often usage of vowels
I'd rather call it "viscid".Finnish is claimed to sound "dull" and "monotonous"
Furthermore, even between Komi and Finnish the mutual intelligibility tends to be zero. Both language belong to Finnish (Finno-Permian) subgroup of Finno-Ugric languages and even have a noticeable number of cognates (which sometimes are even evidentI agree, the mutual intelligibility is zero.
Four: a (2x), de, intonáció, zeneFor instance, in the last example provided by Encolpius I've found only two such words ("a" and "zene").
Sorry for "intonáció" - I was damned sleepy...Four: a (2x), de, intonáció, zene
That did demand a bit more work than Finnish, because the machine didn't recognize foreign letters. So, I had to convert the texts into a format that people can understandI'm trying to translate my text into Hungarian, but I am afraid I am not sure how that counting machine works. I got different results in Finnish. But maybe you can check it and compare the results.
Exactly. The sibilant has been more common in the past, but as "š" is slowly disappearing, the sibilant does so, too. Many borrowings have originally been spelt and pronounced with that sound: tussi used to be tušši and so on. I don't believe that original Finnish words would use that.By the way, when you say that Finnish has the sibilant [ʃ], are you thinking of recent loanwords like shakki etc.?
That's a good point. Besides, when we compare open and closed syllables in Finnish, French and German, we find out that French prefers open syllables, German closed syllables and Finnish uses the both equally much.Yes, the both use vowels willingly, but it seems that in Finnish much more words end in vowels.
True; for example, Estonian is famous for its "false cognates" here in Finland... and even have a noticeable number of cognates (which sometimes are even evident ).
but = de (den must be a lapsus tastaturae)But where did you find "de" there? I see "den" only.
In Finnish "(a/the) train departs" would be juna lähtee. But how about vonat? Palaa (returns), tulee (comes), saapuu (arrives)... Are there any close verbs in Hungarian? And how about your double conjugations which I've heard so much about.It would be a really interesting story, but since I know no Finnish, it is hard to prove, but checked my little dictionary and I am starting to believe the interpreter just fooled you or was misinformed.
Hungarian train = vonat; Finnish train = juna? (reminds me of the Hungarian "jön a (vonat)" = the train is coming)
Hungarian it departs = indul
None of the verbs you mentioned match any Hungarian word.In Finnish "(a/the) train departs" would be juna lähtee. But how about vonat? Palaa (returns), tulee (comes), saapuu (arrives)... Are there any close verbs in Hungarian? And how about your double conjugations which I've heard so much about.![]()
Vonaa... nope, unfortunately. But wasn't Hungarian v the Finnish p or something like that? Ponaa, pounaa, ponaa... Äsch, palaa is the closest one. I am starting to believe that there's no connection.None of the verbs you mentioned match any Hungarian word.And the vonat can't be because -t is the second person singular. So how about vonaa or vounaa or something like that. Double conjugation makes no difference here because it is an intransitive verb.
But checking some infoes I have found these false friends now:
tiedän (Finnish: I know) - tieden (Hungarian: on yours)
tiedät (you know) - tiedet (a funny Hungarian swear word of sort)
meri (sea) - meri (he/she dares)
Check your dictionary for paszkot, I can give you a clue: it's not a bird.But checking some infoes I have found these false friends now:
Yes, it seems they just wanted to find a connection.Vonaa... nope, unfortunately. But wasn't Hungarian v the Finnish p or something like that? Ponaa, pounaa, ponaa... Äsch, palaa is the closest one. I am starting to believe that there's no connection.
Is tieden "on yours"? In Finnish teidän is the genitive of "yours". It would be nice to find other false friends. It's a pity that I don't own a F-H -dictionary...
EDIT: It seems that you've added some more.
EDIT2: Week as an adjective... Did you mean weak?
I know the Finnish word paskaCheck your dictionary for paszkot, I can give you a clue: it's not a bird.And persze isn't "of course"...
OK. PaskotI know the Finnish word paskaand knew what it meant.
It is a nice sounding word for me. The Hungarian pászka is a Jewish term.
Well that is an interesting piece of information! Unfortunately I don't have any reference tables, but don't forget the Baltic influence to Finnish. We have many cognates to them, too. Russian and Swedish affected us later. Besides, you were the first to separate from the Finno—Ugric group. I can see the images from the past in my mind: The Ugrians left us, NOW we can make up a secret language!Can we say that Finnish is a Finno-Ugric language at all? I am asking that because I ran into some statistics about the Hungarian language where I read that about 55% of all Hungarian words is of ancient, Finno-Ugric origin (5% onomatopoeic, 3% Slavic, etc.). Unfortunately I was not able to find any complete information about the Finnish vocabulary but read something that only about 300 words in Finnish are of Finno-Ugric origin. Has Finnish been influenced mostly by Nordic Languages? Thanks.
Tertio, I ran into these statistics, check out the references.I ran into some statistics about the Hungarian language where I read that about 55% of all Hungarian words is of ancient, Finno-Ugric origin (5% onomatopoeic, 3% Slavic, etc.).
That's very true. There are closer languages to Finnish than Estonian.I read the mutual intelligibility between Estonian and Finnish is like that between Spanish and Italian.
I love statistics, so I made a short survey (~ 70 words) around some nouns and verbs of J.L. Runeberg's Vänrikki Stoolin tarinat: Sven Dufva.Can we say that Finnish is a Finno-Ugric language at all? I am asking that because I ran into some statistics about the Hungarian language where I read that about 55% of all Hungarian words is of ancient, Finno-Ugric origin (5% onomatopoeic, 3% Slavic, etc.). Unfortunately I was not able to find any complete information about the Finnish vocabulary but read something that only about 300 words in Finnish are of Finno-Ugric origin. Has Finnish been influenced mostly by Nordic Languages? Thanks.