fired over the Temple Mount

thetazuo

Senior Member
Chinese - China
Zionist gunmen in the Jewish Quarter fired over the Temple Mount; Arabs fired at Jewish civilians from Katamon. On 5 January, the Haganah attacked Katamon and destroyed the Semiramis Hotel, killing eleven innocent Christian Arabs.

Excerpt From
Jerusalem
Simon Sebag Montefiore
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Hi. Does “over” mean “on the other side of” here? Or “on top of”? Or “in the direction of”?
Thank you.
 
  • PaulQ

    Senior Member
    UK
    English - England
    To be frank, it is incomprehensible. I suppose you have to read the context and decide what the Zionist gunmen wanted to do. It seems unlikely that they wanted to shoot so that their bullets passed over the Temple Mount, and therefore this only leaves "fired into or at the area of the Temple Mount.
     

    thetazuo

    Senior Member
    Chinese - China
    To be frank, it is incomprehensible. I suppose you have to read the context and decide what the Zionist gunmen wanted to do. It seems unlikely that they wanted to shoot so that their bullets passed over the Temple Mount, and therefore this only leaves "fired into or at the area of the Temple Mount.
    Thank you, Paul.
    So by “fire into”, you mean “in the direction of” and by “fire at”, you mean “on either side of”, right?
     

    Keith Bradford

    Senior Member
    English (Midlands UK)
    You have to read the context and decide what the Zionist gunmen wanted to do.
    I agree.
    It seems unlikely that they wanted to shoot so that their bullets passed over the Temple Mount...
    I disagree. It's perfectly feasible that they wanted to avoid hitting the Mount (for religious or humanitarian reasons?) but wanted to hit Arabs on the other side. To fire over is commonplace: "The police fired over the heads of the crowd... The army fired over the river... the sniper fired over the windowsill..." etc. etc.
     

    anahiseri

    Senior Member
    Spanish (Spain) and German (Germany)
    over is a preposition of movement, that is, it doesn't refer to a place, like on top of or on the other side of, but to a direction,

    fire at means fire aiming at somebody or something, that is, you want to hit this object or person.
     

    PaulQ

    Senior Member
    UK
    English - England
    Zionist gunmen in the Jewish Quarter fired over the Temple Mount;
    It's perfectly feasible that they wanted to avoid hitting the Mount
    I suppose it is, and I suppose that is what it means, but the Mount of Olives is really the only higher point that has a view across Temple Mount to what might be a target (The Old City), but that is the best part of a kilometre away.
     

    thetazuo

    Senior Member
    Chinese - China
    over is a preposition of movement, that is, it doesn't refer to a place, like on top of or on the other side of, but to a direction,

    fire at means fire aiming at somebody or something, that is, you want to hit this object or person.
    Thank you. But “fire” is intransitive and “over” can mean “on the other side of” as in “They live over the river in Richmond”, so I don’t see why we can’t understand it as “on the other side of”?
    I suppose you have to read the context and decide what the Zionist gunmen wanted to do.
    I haven’t found any relevant context after reading through that chapter.
    It's perfectly feasible that they wanted to avoid hitting the Mount (for religious or humanitarian reasons?) but wanted to hit Arabs on the other side.
    Do you mean a bullet can travel from the foot of the Mount over the top of the mountain then down to the Arabs on the other side? I don’t quite think it possible, unless from the Mount of Olives, as suggested by Paul.
     

    Keith Bradford

    Senior Member
    English (Midlands UK)
    I don't see the problem. A .30-06 rifle bullet will rise to 10,000 feet (3,000 metres). The Temple Mount is 2,400 ft (740m) high from ground level. It would be possible for anyone to fire over the Temple Mount (i.e. a bullet rises above the Mount and falls the other side from anywhere in the vicinity.
     

    kentix

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    Perhaps it was an intimidation tactic or a warning, and wasn't meant to hit anything.

    Compare "a shot across the bow".
     

    kentix

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    We don't know the time spacing or relationship of these events from this short passage (or what other dozens of events were probably happening at the same time). It can easily be seen as a series of escalations. The Jews fired over the Temple Mount as a demonstration of their resolve/strength, which was seen as a provocation by the Arabs, who then fired at the Jews from positions in Katamon in retaliation. The Jews then responded with a further escalation with their attack on the Semiramis Hotel located in Katamon.
     
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