flatward

[giova1982]

Hi there
How can I translate this: "The fugue overreaches itself, overshoots flatwards into ...."
The problematic word is "flatwards".
Thank you
Giovanni

 

[TimLA]

Hi Giova,
I assume this is a musical fugue like Bach might have done?

In this context "flatward" is a very figurative and negative.

The "flat" does not refer to a note being flat (stonato/a) but rather something "flat" doesn't sound very exciting,
it fails in what it is supposed to accomplish.

We have a saying "It fell flat on it's face" which means it failed - it's that type of "flat" - boring, not interesting.

I wouldn't have a clue about the correct Italian form, but I'll throw out some words
that may be relevant - "piatto" "bianco" "semplice" "ordinario" "insignificante" "liscio".

Let's see what others might say.

very exciting,

 

[giova1982]

Hi timla
the translation of flat in Italian (flat = note alteration) is bemolle.

The little text is taken from a book about beethoven late style.

The entire phrase is: "But at m.45, the fugue overreaches itself, overshoots flatwards into Db major, and grinds to a halt with a crisis marked with astonishing five-octave leaps."

Maybe i have understand the meaning of the text.

Thank you for now!

 

[TimLA]

Well, let's wait a bit, with the additional text, it actually might mean "flat" - "bemolle"
in terms of moving to "D flat".

Which piece of Beethoven's is this?

 

[giova1982]

It's the Op. 111, a Piano sonata.
This is a book about the Adorno's Beethoven, where the philosopher wants to analise the beethoven's style and then his late style. The book is very interesting but the prose is quite difficult for a non-English speaker like me.
This book is for the Musical Aestethic exam.
Now I'm going to go to bed, in Italy it's 2.10 AM.
Tomorrow I'll see the answers.
Thank you for the kindness.
I wish to improve fast my English, athough you can't understand me!
Bye

 

[TimLA]

It's the Op. 111, a Piano sonata.

So this is the last of his sonatas and HERE is the full sheet music.
It's written in C minor, and in the 45th measure it becomes more "flat" to
D flat major.
So I would guess that it would be something like "...oltrepassa piu' stonata e si cambia a re bemolle maggiore..."????

The book is very interesting but the prose is quite difficult for a non-english speaker like me. This book is for the Musical Aestethic exam.

This type of writing is very specialized, but after reading it for a time,
you will understand more and more, and then it will become very easy.

Now I'm going to go to bed, in Italy it's 2.10 AM.
Tomorrow I'll see the answers.
Thank you for the kindness.

Vai a nanna...sogni d'oro.
E prego.

I wish to improve my english fast, yet you can understand me!
Bye

You are doing very well. Just keep writing in English, and write,
and write, and speak, and write...
Ciao!

 

[giova1982]

"...oltrepassa piu' stonata e si cambia a re bemolle maggiore..."

That phrase hasn't got a sense in italian. Maybe you can write:" si fa avanti in modo più stridente/rumoroso/dissonante all'interno del Re bemolle maggiore e si frantuma in una fermata evidenziata dallo stupefacente salto di cinque ottave".
Maybe this version can be the true version.
Thank you very much, i'm so relieved now.
If you see any error in my english, please correct me!
Bye bye, i hope to see you soon.
Giovanni