Flutes & pipes

Discussion in 'All Languages' started by ThomasK, Oct 26, 2012.

  1. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    How do you translate these musical instruments? They are often based on the word for pipe or tube, by the way...

    Dutch: fluit -- and doedelzak (bagpipe)
    English : flute -- and bagpipe (pipe !)
    German: Flöte but also Pfeife (whistle & pipe) --- and Dudelsack

    They are tubas too, but those refer to tubes & music but not to flutes.)
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2012
  2. ilocas2 Senior Member


    flute - flétna
    bagpipes - dudy, gajdy​ (dialectal)
    trumpet - trubka (pipe), trumpeta
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2012
  3. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    In Greek:

    Flute: «Φλάουτο» ['fla.uto] (neut.) an Italian loan < flauto (when referring to the brass orchestra instrument). The traditional instrument (made of wood or cane) for playing Greek folk music is called, i) «αυλός» [a'vlos] (masc.) which is an ancient masc. noun «αὐλός» au'lŏs --> any hollow tube (PIE base *awl-, any hollow cavity; cf. Lat. alvus), ii) «σουραύλι» [su'ravli] (neut.) from the Hellenistic «συραύλιον» sŭ'raulīŏn, a compound; «σῦριγξ» 'sūrĭnx (fem.) --> shepherd's pipe, Panspipe (PIE base *twōu-/*tūl-, pipe; cf. Skt. तूणव (tunava), flute) + «αὐλός» au'lŏs, iii) «φλογέρα» [flo'ʝera] (fem.) an Aromanian loan < flojere.
    Pipe: For the Scottish bagpipe we use the feminine noun «γκάϊντα» ['ga.inda] a Turkish loan < gayda. The traditional Greek instrument (made of animal skin and wooden blowstick and chanter) for playing folk music is called, i) «άσκαυλος» ['askavlos] (masc.) which is an ancient masc. noun «ἄσκαυλος» ăskaulŏs, a compound; «ἀσκός» ă'skŏs (masc.) --> skin made into a bag, wineskin (with obscure etymology) + «αὐλός» au'lŏs, ii) «ασκομαντούρα» [askoman'dura] (fem.) & «ασκομπαντούρα» [askomban'dura] (fem.) which is a word in the Cretan regiolect, a compound; «ἀσκός» ă'skŏs (masc.) + «μαντούρα» [man'dura] or «μπαντούρα» [ban'dura], which derives from the ancient fem. noun «πανδοῦρα» păn'doură --> ancient lute (in the Cretan dialect «μαντούρα» stands for the wooden chanter), iii) «τσαμπούνα» [t͡sam'buna] (fem.) in the regiolect of some Greek isles (e.g Naxos, Rhodes etc.), an Italian loan < zampogna (bagpipe)
  4. rusita preciosa

    rusita preciosa Modus forendi

    USA (Φιλαδέλφεια)
    Russian (Moscow)
    In Russian they are not related to "pipe":

    flute: флейта /fleyta/ - a loan from Dutch

    bagpipe: волынка /volynka/ - from the region of Volhynia in Ukraine and Poland.
    (There is a colloquial verb волынить / волыниться /volynit' / volynitsia/ meaning "to do something too slowly / procrastinate", not sure what the connection is - may be waiting for someone who takes their time is as annoying as bagpipe music :))

    There is a wind instrument that literally means "pipe": труба /truba/ - trumpet
  5. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    In dumaget, there is "Kulibyaw", a musical instrument made of Thin bamboo called "buho". It is not common to most Filipinos.
  6. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I am very surprised at some things:
    - has the Dutch word been borrowed by Russian? I know there are some Dutch words that have been borrowed in the marine branch, but also here?
    - Dutch 'fluit' seems to be a loan from French (origin unclear, maybe onomatopaic, linked with flare, blow ?)
    - there is a huge variety of words for bagpipe, so it seems
    - as for buho, flute: aren't there any wind instruments in the Philippines? I'd be surprised but of course I do not know the culture...
  7. Maroseika Moderator

    According to Max Vasmer only "masculine form" (флейт) was loaned from Dutch fluit. Modern "feminine form" (флета > флейта) was loaned from German Flötе.
    As for your question, not only nautical terms were loaned from Dutch, but many other technical and everyday terms as well, such as зонт < зонтик < zondek (originally 'tent above the deck') - umbrella, апельсин < appelsien - orange, абрикос < abrikoos - apricot, брюки < broek - trousers, ситец < sits - printed cutton, квитанция < kvitantie - receipt, etc.
  8. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Great information, thanks a lot! But how come you make a distinction between a masculine and a feminine form?
  9. Maroseika Moderator

    In Russian feminine and masculine forms of nouns usually differ in Nom. ending: the former ends on the vowel (флейта - [fleita]), the latter - on the hard consonant (флейт - [fleit]). It can be not like that with some animative and loaned nouns, and in case of nouns ending on a soft consonant one should just remember the gender, but in case of флейт/флейта any native will immediately know the gender.
  10. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Do you have two variants of one word then, with a different gender? (Sorry !)
  11. Maroseika Moderator

    Not at once, of course. Sometimes a word changes its gender with time, usually it happens to the loaned words. For example key button: Masc. клавиш [klavish] > Fem. клавиша [klavisha] (from Latin clavis (maybe thru Polish klawisz)). Nowadays клавиш is obsolete and флейт is archaic.
    But for animate nouns we often (in most cases, actually) have Fem. and Masc. variants. Usually Fem. variant is formed by use of the additional suffix, but anyway there is always a Fem. ending, too.

    No reason to be sorry. We are not ashamed of it at all.
  12. Encolpius

    Encolpius Senior Member

    Praha (Prague)
    magyar (Hungarian)
    Hungarian: fluit = fuvola; doedelzak = duda
  13. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Your 'duda' reminded me of the 'doedel' and I now discover indeed that etymologiebank.nl refers to Turkish düdük, flute (!) and to doedelen, some kind of humming in Dutch. Wonder if our Turkish 'representatives' ;-) can tell us more!
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2012
  14. Maroseika Moderator

    Hungarian word is most likely the loan from Slavic (such as Russian дуда [duda], Slovenian dúda, Polish dudy, - musical pipe, and further Lithuanian *daudà, daudýtė - reed pipe). Coincidence with Turkish düdük is reckoned ot be just occasional. The word is encountered in many Slavic languages and said to originate from Old Slavic *duti - to blow.
  15. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I now discover that etymologiebank.nl mentions those words, but assumes they are all based on Turkish. Would you have cournterevidence? That might be quite interesting.
  16. Maroseika Moderator

    If you can read Russian you can check in the most recent and full Russian etymological dictionary. It says both Slavic duda and Turkic düdük are independent onomatopetic words. More early dictionaries of Max Vasmer and Pavel Chernykh derivate it from *duti - to blow. But all of them distinctly differ between Slavic and Turkic words. So I'm afraid etymologiebank.nl is wrong.
  17. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Don't worry. I'll be pleased to suggest a correction and refer to this site! There was a reference to onomatopeia as for flute (flare, also to blow), but this is another interesting aspect. Thanks for the information. I have just passed the information on.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2012
  18. Gavril Senior Member

    English, USA
    huilu "flute"
    pilli "whistle/pipe" (only used for "pipe" in the musical sense, I think)
    säkkipilli "bagpipe"
  19. OneStroke Senior Member

    Hong Kong, China
    Chinese - Cantonese (HK)
    Flute - 長笛 (chang2di2, unable to type the tones at the moment)
    Bagpipes - 風笛 (feng1di2)
    Like the character 琴, di was originally used exclusively for the di (Chinese flute) but now it can refer to different Western instruments after adding another morpheme in front of it. Changdi means 'long di' and fengdi means 'wind di'. Funny how that reminds me of the trachea! :D (Wind-pipe)
  20. Alderamin Senior Member

    In Portuguese:
    Flute: Flauta
    Pipe: Pífaro
  21. Frank78

    Frank78 Senior Member

    It seems a little tricky between English and German. Perhaps someone can enlighten me what the difference between a flute and a pipe is?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipe_(instrument) - These would also be "Flöten" in German.

    To my knowledge a "Pfeife" can only produce a single sound. You cannot play a melody with it, e.g. "Pfeifen" are used by referees and as organ pipes (Orgelpfeife).
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
  22. Gavril Senior Member

    English, USA
    I think "pipe" is a broader and less formal term than "flute". Here are the relevant definitions from Random House:


    A referee uses a "whistle" in English, not a pipe. Unlike a pipe, a whistle isn't usually a long tube, but a more compact object like this.
  23. Frank78

    Frank78 Senior Member

    I don't think there's a German word for pipe then.

    The closest I can come up with is "Holzblasinstrument" (woodwind instrument) but this would also include saxophones.
  24. rayloom

    rayloom Senior Member

    Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
    Arabic (Hijazi Arabic)
    The generic Arabic word is مزمار mizmaar. Modern instruments have usually foreign names in Arabic.
    An old borrowing into Arabic is the Ney (Arabic ناي naay, from Persian).

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