(food is) arranged deliciously

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meijin

Senior Member
Japanese
Hi, if I said "She prepared the sushi deliciously" in a sushi party she organized, it would mean that I tasted it and it tasted delicious.
On the other hand, if the sushi was beautifully arranged on the plate and looked delicious, I can't say like:

1. She arranged the sushi deliciously on the plate.
2. The sushi is arranged deliciously on the plate.
3. The sushi is sitting deliciously on the plate.


I should say, for example, "She arranged the sushi on the plate in the way it looks delicious". Correct?

 
  • meijin

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    To make my question in this thread easier to understand, let me compare these two sentences.

    He drank the beer deliciously. (I know this is wrong, thanks to the other thread)
    Here, it is the ACT of drinking that I wanted to describe as "deliciously". So it's like "How he drinks the beer (with a happy look on his face) makes it look delicious."

    She arranged the sushi deliciously.
    Here, it is not the ACT of arranging that I wanted to describe as "deliciously". So it's not like "How she moves her hands and puts the sushi on the plate makes it looks delicious".
    It is the RESULT of arranging. It's like "The way sushi sits on the plate (which was arranged earlier by her) makes it look delicious".

    So, the "reasons discussed" in the other thread don't seem to apply here and I need a better explanation...
    Maybe "deliciously" works only when it's "actually" delicious, not when it "looks" delicious.
     

    You little ripper!

    Senior Member
    Australian English
    Maybe "deliciously" works only when it's "actually" delicious, not when it "looks" delicious.
    Yes.

    1. She arranged the sushi on the plate in such a way that it looked delicious!
    2. The sushi is arranged tantalizingly on the plate.
    3. The sushi is sitting temptingly on the plate.
     

    kentix

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    Delicious just means good tasting. It doesn't "stretch" to other uses like the Japanese word apparently does.

    You can't drink, arrange, eat, or prepare something deliciously. Delicious simply describes the taste of the food.

    This is in the WR dictionary:

    de•li•cious•ly, adv.: deliciously prepared foods.

    "Deliciously" sounds like it modifies "prepared" which I think is misleading. To me the sentence means "the food is prepared in such a way that it tastes delicious." It still describes the food.
     
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    meijin

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    Delicious just means good tasting. It doesn't "stretch" to other uses like the Japanese word apparently does.
    Oh...:eek:...I've just realized something. We do have an adverb that (probably) means the same as the English adverb "deliciously", but since we don't use it very often I TOTALLY forgot about it and was only thinking/talking about another adverb that sounds very similar but means "delicious-lookingly" (I know such an English adverb doesn't exist).

    "Deliciously" sounds like it modifies "prepared" which I think is misleading.
    Yes, this is why I and the author of the eat deliciously thread (who is Korean) thought that the word means "delicious-lookingly".

    You can't drink, arrange, eat, or prepare something deliciously
    Wait a second. You can't prepare something deliciously? The dictionary quote you posted says "deliciously prepared foods". Also, one of my (somewhat untrustworthy) Japanese-English dictionaries shows "The beans were deliciously cooked in a thick sauce" and "This eggplant has been deliciously seasoned" as examples. Are these wrong English? If they aren't, I don't see why you can't say "prepare something deliciously". You can't use the verb "cook" for sushi, salad, etc. because it doesn't involve heating, so you use "prepare", don't you?

    To me the sentence means "the food is prepared in such a way that it tastes delicious." It still describes the food.
    Am I right in thinking that in English you can't say "eat/drink something deliciously" meaning "eat/drink it in such a way that it tastes delicious"? Interestingly, in Japanese, we can say it (this is different from "eat/drink something delicious-lookingly" which I had been talking about in the other thread). How can we eat or drink something that tastes bad deliciously? Maybe it's impossible unless we can change our taste buds or mental perception before eating. But maybe it's possible in some cases. For example, some people don't like black coffee because it's too bitter for them. But they can drink coffee deliciously by adding a good amount of sugar and perhaps milk too. Also, it's possible to eat a food that was served to you and tastes "OK" or "so-so" deliciously (by making it taste better), by, for example, adding some mayonnaise, sauce, vinegar, salt, pepper, etc., or by having a great conversation with your dining companions (but it's more likely to say "enjoy the meal" than "eat it deliciously" in this case).

    A: Doesn't this dish taste rather too weak?
    B: I agree. It doesn't taste very good.
    A: Well, what shall we do to eat this deliciously?
    B: I'll ask if they have mayonnaise and teriyaki sauce. Excuse me, waiter?
     

    kentix

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    Nope. None of that is true.

    Adding mayo, salt, sauce or whatever to weak food will make it taste better or more enjoyable or more delectable or more delicious or more edible but it doesn't change the nature of the eating. Just the enjoyment afforded by the eating.

    A: Doesn't this dish taste rather too weak?
    B: I agree. It doesn't taste very good.
    A: Well, what shall we do to eat this deliciously improve the taste/make it taste better/make it more enjoyable to eat/make it edible?
    B: I'll ask if they have mayonnaise and teriyaki sauce. Excuse me, waiter?

    Note: This post got long and answers your questions above in a somewhat random order but I didn't want to miss anything. Proceed at your own risk.:)

    Wait a second. You can't prepare something deliciously?
    No. You can prepare food so that the final product is delicious, but that describes the food, not the preparation. I'm not positive, but I think "deliciously prepared food" could be an example of a transferred epithet, that was talked about in recent thread. Even though delicious appears to describe the preparation, it's actually "transferred" from the food that is the final product. The adjective moves off of the food to the front and comes before prepared (also an adjective) and becomes an adverb in form, but in actuality still describes the food.

    "The beans were deliciously cooked in a thick sauce" and "This eggplant has been deliciously seasoned"
    The beans were cooked in a thick sauce which rendered them delicious when they were served.
    This eggplant has been seasoned in a way that makes it taste delicious when eaten.

    Deliciously is really (in effect) an adjective, not an adverb. It describes the end product, not the method of preparation. You couldn't watch the cook and distinguish whether the eggplant was deliciously seasoned or disgustingly seasoned. You could only tell those cases apart by tasting. Which again, reinforces the fact that it is a reference to the taste and not the preparation method.

    This is from a Google search:
    deliciously
    adverb
    in a way that is highly pleasant to the senses, especially taste:
    "the trout was light and crisp, deliciously cooked"

    You can't watch the chef cooking the fish (the process) and find it highly pleasant to your sense of taste. The sentence is actually a description of the fish only after it's done cooking (the end product) and you have had a chance take a bite.

    Are these wrong English?
    I don't think they are wrong but I think they are easily misunderstood.

    I don't see why you can't say "prepare something deliciously". You can't use the verb "cook" for sushi, salad, etc. because it doesn't involve heating, so you use "prepare", don't you?
    Note that neither of your examples above have this form (prepare something deliciously).

    deliciously cooked
    deliciously seasoned

    and not

    cooked deliciously

    In the examples above, deliciously is really part of an adjective (that's composed of an adjective and the adverb modifying it).*
    deliciously-cooked beans
    deliciously-seasoned eggplant

    * Upon re-reading I see this is not quite accurate. But I think the idea is still valid if you think of them as transferred epithets coming from the food.

    Added: I think it can be considered this way.

    "This eggplant has been deliciously seasoned".

    This eggplant has been seasoned (verb) and the end result is that it is delicious (adjective).

    In English this can be shortened to:
    "This eggplant has been deliciously seasoned". (Because the adjective has moved in front of the verb it's form changes to that of an adverb, but the inherent meaning does not change.)


    It describes a quality of the food, the final product of the cooking.

    In your example, deliciously is purely an adverb modifying a verb... but it's not an adverb that can be used for that purpose in English. You can only prepare something delicious (adjective describing a noun [something]) but not prepare something deliciously (adverb describing a verb [prepare]).

    So you can prepare some delicious sushi. And you can offer your guests some deliciously prepared sushi. But you can't prepare sushi deliciously for them or deliciously prepare sushi for them.

    For example, some people don't like black coffee because it's too bitter for them. But they can drink coffee deliciously by adding a good amount of sugar and perhaps milk too.
    No, they can't do that in English. They can enjoy their coffee more by adding sugar and milk. They can make it drinkable by adding sugar and milk. They can avoid having to pour it down the sink by adding sugar and milk. But what they can't do is drink it deliciously.

     
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    meijin

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    So you can prepare some delicious sushi. And you can offer your guests some deliciously prepared sushi. But you can't prepare sushi deliciously for them or deliciously prepare sushi for them.
    No, they can't do that in English. They can enjoy their coffee more by adding sugar and milk. They can make it drinkable by adding sugar and milk. They can avoid having to pour it down the sink by adding sugar and milk. But what they can't do is drink it deliciously.
    Thanks kentix. So, obviously the English "deliciously" isn't used the same way as the Japanese adverb that means "deliciously" (let alone "delicious-lookingly"). That's really interesting and I have to be very careful when using the English word "deliciously". :thumbsup:
     

    meijin

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    But you can't prepare sushi deliciously for them or deliciously prepare sushi for them.
    I understand that you can't say "prepare sushi deliciously", but I'm now wondering why you can't say "deliciously prepare sushi", which seems possible according to your explanation below.

    This eggplant has been seasoned (verb) and the end result is that it is delicious (adjective).
    In English this can be shortened to:
    "This eggplant has been deliciously seasoned". (Because the adjective has moved in front of the verb it's form changes to that of an adverb, but the inherent meaning does not change.)
    Reading this, it seems possible to say "I have deliciously seasoned this eggplant" (which is just the reverse version of "This eggplant has been deliciously seasoned". In other words, it means "I have seasoned this eggplant and the end results is that it is delicious". Do you mean that you can't use "deliciously cook/prepare/season" for your future action (i.e. for something that has not been cooked/prepared/seasoned yet)?
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    Meijin-san, has this word become an obseession - a frustration perhaps that English doesn't have a counterpart to the Japanese word you refer to?
    If you enter deliciously into the search box and look at uses in context, or use the Ngram viewer to look fo its usage in English, you will learn a lot by (lack of) example. Here are the most common word pairs starting or ending with deliciously.
     
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    meijin

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    Meijin-san, has this word become an obseession - a frustration perhaps that English doesn't have a counterpart to the Japanese word you refer to?
    Don't worry, Julian. I'm not "frustrated". :) It's just so interesting that we use the word "deliciously" differently (and that there's no adverb that means "delicious-lookingly" in English). Also, as your Ngram Viewer results (as well as many examples in the dictionaries I have) tell me that the English word "deliciously" isn't just used for food and drinks. For example, one of the English-English dictionaries I use shows "I would like you to know that I find you deliciously odd". Also, I found this interesting example in a Collins dictionary: "This yoghurt has a deliciously creamy flavour". Note that "deliciously" in this example isn't followed by a verb. I'm wondering what it exactly means. It's not the same as "This yoghurt has a creamy, delicious flavour", I guess.
     

    kentix

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    For example, one of the English-English dictionaries I use shows "I would like you to know that I find you deliciously odd".
    Yes, there is a whole other figurative side to deliciously but I was ignoring that in these posts because we were talking about its use with food and taste. But you could look at it that way with this example: This yoghurt has a deliciously creamy flavor.

    First of all, in the sentence "I would like you to know that I find you deliciously odd", "deliciously" basically means "enjoyably" or "appealingly". I think you are odd in a way that's enjoyable and appealing/interesting (as opposed to creepily odd). But "odd" is an adjective, so "deliciously" modifies "odd" and is part of the compound adjective.

    So "This yoghurt has a deliciously creamy flavor." could mean "This yoghurt has an enjoyably creamy flavor." (Of course, it would be more accurate to say it has a deliciously creamy texture. And once you do that, you're not, strictly speaking, talking about flavor any more and "deliciously" becomes entirely figurative, at least in my mind).

    But that still doesn't work for this sentence: But they can drink coffee deliciously by adding a good amount of sugar and perhaps milk too.

    In the above example with creamy, "deliciously creamy" is an adjective modifying (I would argue) texture. But in the coffee sentence it's not an adjective or part of an adjective. You can't drink coffee enjoyably. You can enjoy drinking coffee. "Let's sit down and enjoy our coffee.":thumbsup: "Let's sit down and drink our coffee enjoyably.":thumbsdown: "I was enjoying my coffee when the phone rang.":thumbsup: "I was drinking my coffee enjoyably when the phone rang.":thumbsdown:

    Reading this, it seems possible to say "I have deliciously seasoned this eggplant" (which is just the reverse version of "This eggplant has been deliciously seasoned". In other words, it means "I have seasoned this eggplant and the end results is that it is delicious". Do you mean that you can't use "deliciously cook/prepare/season" for your future action (i.e. for something that has not been cooked/prepared/seasoned yet)?
    I see two possibilities: deliciously has the figurative meaning "enjoyably/appealingly" or it's referring to taste.

    "I have enjoyably seasoned this eggplant" certainly doesn't seem like a viable option.

    "I have seasoned this eggplant in a delicious manner." Again, it's not referring to the taste of the eggplant, but to how you seasoned it (Did you sprinkle the seasoning with your right hand and not your left hand to make it more delicious?)

    The original was "This eggplant has been deliciously seasoned", i.e. it's a form of "This eggplant is..." It's describing the nature of the eggplant (its taste), not how it was prepared.

    but I'm now wondering why you can't say "deliciously prepare sushi",
    The same answer as above with the eggplant. It doesn't work figuratively "enjoyably prepare sushi" and it doesn't work as a description of taste because it not describing taste, it's describing preparation.

    "deliciously prepared sushi" describes the taste of the sushi ("deliciously prepared" is an adjective).

     
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    meijin

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    The original was "This eggplant has been deliciously seasoned", i.e. it's a form of "This eggplant is..." It's describing the nature of the eggplant (its taste), not how it was prepared.

    The same answer as above with the eggplant. It doesn't work figuratively "enjoyably prepare sushi" and it doesn't work as a description of taste because it not describing taste, it's describing preparation.

    "deliciously prepared sushi" describes the taste of the sushi ("deliciously prepared" is an adjective).
    Thanks for taking the time to explain, kentix. I understood everything but the above part. Of course, I understand that "deliciously prepared" in "deliciously prepared sushi" is an adjective, but "deliciously prepared" in "This eggplant has been deliciously seasoned" isn't an adjective, is it? If they are an adverb and a verb, why doesn't it work the same way in "I have deliciously seasoned this eggplant"? As for the original "This eggplant has been deliciously seasoned", you say "It's describing the nature of the eggplant (its taste), not how it was prepared", but it was prepared by someone (=I), so I just reversed the sentence. Does simply reversing the sentence from active to passive change the meaning of the adverb "deliciously" or what it refers to? How about if I add "by me" to the original. "This eggplant has been deliciously seasoned by me".
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    When an adverb is applied to an action, it generally refers to how the actor did the action, not to the result on the object.
    "prepared X-ly" would therefore be about how the cook moved his arms, how he used utensils, etc but not what he did to the food, what he put in the food, how well the food turned out.
    This eggplant has been deliciously seasoned. - "seasoned" has become a past participle adjective.
    Compare it to:
    The cook will make eggplant tomorrow and it will be deliciously seasoned. Is this a future sentence using a past tense verb? No.
     

    meijin

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    Sorry that I couldn't reply sooner. Please allow me to do the following comparisons to see if my understanding (of what I've been told in this thread) is correct. Please bear with me.

    1a. This eggplant has been deliciously seasoned.
    1b. The sushi has been beautifully arranged.

    These are both correct, and they mean that the eggplant is delicious and the sushi looks beautiful.

    2a. This eggplant has been deliciously seasoned by our chef.
    2b. The sushi has been beautifully arranged by our chef.

    I simply added "by our chef" to 1a and 1b. These sentences are probably wrong, because "seasoned" and ""arranged" here are adjectives, not verbs.

    3a. This eggplant has been seasoned deliciously by our chef.
    3b. The sushi has been arranged beautifully by our chef.

    I moved the position of "deliciously"/"beautifully". These sentences are grammatically correct, but the "deliciously" and "beautifully" refer to the chef's behavior (how he/she moved their body etc).

    I hope my understanding is correct.
     
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