Football in Australia

Buongiorno a tutti.

I am trying to think of a word for football in Australia. Would I use 'football' or 'Aussie Rules' with an accent? Because if I use the translation it would describe soccer, which it isn't... Any ideas?

Grazie
 
  • GavinW

    Senior Member
    British English
    Well, American football is "calcio americano" (I believe), so I don't see why Aussie rules football can't be "calcio australiano". But wait for a native Italian-speaker to confirm...
     

    Silvia

    Senior Member
    Italian
    I have no idea what Australian football is or how it differs from the standard one, but I gather it has different rules from American football, therefore I would simply call it "football australiano". Calcio is soccer (or football in British English).
     

    Silvia

    Senior Member
    Italian
    What for, Mr Aquilone? Is it a title? As a general rule, I wouldn't leave "Aussie Rules" in English in an Italian translation.
     

    giacinta

    Senior Member
    English
    "Australian Rules Football" is actually the name of the game. Possibly in the same way Americans talk of "Gridiron"? It is nothing like soccer or American football and is derived from a Irish game called Gaelic football. It is a great game--indeed it is a religion in Australia. Affectionately it is known as "Aussie Rules".
     

    shamblesuk

    Senior Member
    England, English
    Where's Charles when you need him???????

    In the UK we call it 'Aussie Rules Football'. The game where they wear very tight shirts and there are three goalposts.

    Soccer is rarely used in BE because Association Football is the only 'football' we play (unless you count rugby union/league)
     

    giacinta

    Senior Member
    English
    Why should Charles know more than me? Just because he's a bloke????

    In fact there are 4 posts. And these days they wear loose shorts and shirts. Che peccato! (insert smiley) I recommend the game to the rest of the world. It is like Ballet-- especially when they go up in the Ruck to tap out the ball as it is bounced on the ground into the skies. Sheer poetry. And they aren't padded like the Americans. These are real men!
     

    erick

    Senior Member
    English (USA)
    giacinta said:
    I recommend the game to the rest of the world. It is like Ballet-- especially when they go up in the Ruck to tap out the ball as it is bounced on the ground into the skies. Sheer poetry. And they aren't padded like the Americans. These are real men!
    Haha giacinta, I can vouch for that. You know, when I was visiting Melbourne my OZ friend dragged me out to Colonial Stadium to see Essendon play. He had to explain everything to me, starting with, "okay Erick, listen up, the main rule in Aussie rules is that there are basically no rules." It was bizarre to watch at first, but certainly exciting. I doubt that there are many people outside of Australia who know about Aussie rules football, so a clear description that distinguishes it as a breed apart would be helpful. Otherwise it'll be automatically confused with English "calcio" football or the "football" played in America ... the one we play with hands. ;)
     

    giacinta

    Senior Member
    English
    No, I don't think so. In Australia we play soccer as well. The term "football australiano" o " calcio australiano" would be confused with Australian soccer. Australian Rules is its own unique code. There really is no alternative I can think of to "Australian Rules" or "Aussie Rules". We know it as this from birth.
    I'm glad you enjoyed the match, Erick!
    Giacinta
     

    ElaineG

    Senior Member
    USA/English
    giacinta said:
    No, I don't think so. In Australia we play soccer as well. The term "football australiano" o " calcio australiano" would be confused with Australian soccer. Australian Rules is its own unique code. There really is no alternative I can think of to "Australian Rules" or "Aussie Rules". We know it as this from birth.
    I'm glad you enjoyed the match, Erick!
    Giacinta
    I don't see why: "calcio" is "calcio (soccer)" and "football americano" is American football, no Italian has ever thought I meant "soccer" when I said "football americano."

    Vedi: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_australiano
     

    giacinta

    Senior Member
    English
    (In response to Elaine) Perhaps that's because in America hardly anyone plays soccer. If I mention Australian football in the UK, it is assumed I am talking of soccer. Australia is in the FA finals (?) in soccer this year in Europe. "Football" in European countries is assumed to be soccer. On the other hand I am not surprised that nobody thinks "soccer" when American Football is mentioned. Furthermore, American football (and baseball) are known throughout the world, unlike our game here.
     

    ElaineG

    Senior Member
    USA/English
    giacinta said:
    Perhaps that's because in America hardly anyone plays soccer. If I mention Australian football in the UK, it is assumed I am talking of soccer. Australia is in the FA finals (?) in soccer this year in Europe. "Football" in European countries is assumed to be soccer. On the other hand I am not surprised that nobody thinks "soccer" when American Football is mentioned. Furthermore, American football (and baseball) are known throughout the world, unlike our game here.
    You're missing the point -- the word "football" when used in Italian is understood to be a foreign word, indicating a foreign thing, because "calcio" is their word for soccer/football. It's not the same as the UK.

    There's even a "Federazione italiana di Football Australiana": http://australianfootball.splinder.com/
     

    ElaineG

    Senior Member
    USA/English
    I don't understand why you don't think Italians would say "calcio australiano" to discuss Australians kicking a black and white ball, and therefore understand that "football australiano" was something different.

    It doesn't have anything to do with how many people play a certain sport.
     

    giacinta

    Senior Member
    English
    I'm having difficulty with the double negatives. One doesn't usually describe the size/colour/shape of the ball when discussing a game of football. I might be being unfair, but if British people (who populated this country over 200 years ago and who visit here in large numbers, have numerous relatives here, watch our TV programs and who speak the same language) are confused by the word "football" whether it is prefaced "Australian" or not, I cannot help but think that Italians who travel far less, (even within Italy), are not exposed to Australian culture in the media, if at all, but who would all know about our success in making it into the European Soccer finals might be forgiven if they thought Australian football meant soccer. I am sure any Italian follower of soccer (and there are millions) would know that when the British say the word "football" they mean SOCCER!!! This was the point I was trying to make. Let's ask a native what they think is intended by the words "English football"? I would be very surprised if they didn't mention soccer.
     

    ElaineG

    Senior Member
    USA/English
    giacinta said:
    I'm having difficulty with the double negatives. One doesn't usually describe the size/colour/shape of the ball when discussing a game of football. I might be being unfair, but if British people (who populated this country over 200 years ago and who visit here in large numbers, have numerous relatives here, watch our TV programs and who speak the same language) are confused by the word "football" whether it is prefaced "Australian" or not, I cannot help but think that Italians who travel far less, (even within Italy), are not exposed to Australian culture in the media, if at all, but who would all know about our success in making it into the European Soccer finals might be forgiven if they thought Australian football meant soccer. I am sure any Italian follower of soccer (and there are millions) would know that when the British say the word "football" they mean SOCCER!!! This was the point I was trying to make. Let's ask a native what they think is intended by the words "English football"? I would be very surprised if they didn't mention soccer.
    I don't understand your post at all. You seem to be mixing up English and Italian.

    I'm not talking about whether "Australian football" would be understood as "soccer" in English.

    We're looking for an Italian phrase. The Italian word for soccer is calcio. The word "football" is not used in Italian except as a borrowing.

    I have linked you to a Wikipedia article in Italian that calls it "football australiano" and to the Federazione Italiana di Football Austrialiano. That seems clear enough to me.

    Here is another article that describes it, and calls it "football australiano": http://sportsemotions.blogs.it.eurosport.com/archive/2006/03/03/aussie-rules-football-dall-australia-uno-sport-tutto-da-scop.html
     

    giacinta

    Senior Member
    English
    ElaineG said:
    You're missing the point -- the word "football" when used in Italian is understood to be a foreign word, indicating a foreign thing, because "calcio" is their word for soccer/football. It's not the same as the UK.

    There's even a "Federazione italiana di Football Australiana": http://australianfootball.splinder.com/
    And finally! I am not surprised that there is a site "australian football". in Italy. This is directed towards Italian migrants to Australia. There are many thousands, who, like our Greek migrants, return from time to time to their native land. We have had (and still have) many great Italian Aussie Rules players. Robert Dipierdomenico per esempio and the Silvagni family (two generations have played for the same team--coming out in the 1920s). These all came from the South with the great emigration in the early part of the last century. I doubt there would be many from the centre or north who subscribe to this site. It is wonderful that there is such a site to accomodate the Aussie/Italians. We just have to get them interested in cricket!!!
     

    erick

    Senior Member
    English (USA)
    Giacinta you are right on! Finding the right way to express an idea while minimizing confusion should start with an understanding of the game and its contrast to other types of football. Getting a grasp of that concept involves more than hearing of Aussie rules football for the first time today and making one's basis for explanation on a few web sites pulled up from Google. It's tempting and facile to slap together the words "football australiano" but doing so shows a naïvete toward the subject (and a lack of passion for the differences). Giacinta, who has an easy knowledge of Aussie rules football, presents important points that seem to have been summarily dismissed in favor of a few cursory web pages and minor cavils. Insisting that it should be called football or calcio australiano because some web page says so is a bit like saying, "I read it on the internet so it must be true." In a case such as this it's perhaps better to show deference to someone who knows the game.
    My Australian friends have always spoken to me about "Aussie rules" football and in so doing made it clear from the start that they were talking about a different game -- one that I had never seen or heard of outside of Australia. Until I went to Australia I thought there were only two major types: English (soccer/calcio) and American. If one had spoken to me about "Australian Football," I'd probably assume it was either Australians playing "soccer" or a variant of American football, as they do in that other Commonwealth country: Canada. CFL plays a style of football nearly identical to America's NFL, except for the wider field and probably a few rule changes. I might expect the same when hearing of "Australian football" if not for the all-important "rules" in the title. "Rules" is the operative word here: "Aussie rules football" suggests that the game is played by different rules, and in this case the differences are formidable. It's not too much of a leap to imagine that some Australians with foresight deliberately put the "rules" in the name to prevent confusion about it in the rest of the world. If you think football is just a bunch of people running around kicking a ball, then this is a moot point. For fans of football it's all the difference in the world: witness the many failed attempts to popularize "soccer," the most popular sport in the world, in America.
    Charles Costante said:
    Maybe it could be translated as "Football australiano" with "Aussie Rules" in brackets.
    Charles has a point here, and I might suggest calling it "Football di regole australiane" or something of that sort.
    In recent years NFL (American football) scouts have become aware of Aussie rules' talented kickers and they're slowly making their way here to play as NFL field goal and punt kickers (Ben Graham and Mat McBriar among them). Take a look at this article from ESPN, the American leader in sports news. It's called "Australian Rules Football." And for those using Wikipedia as the final authority, it too calls the sport Australian rules football. The thing about the Wikipedia English site is that it's probably written by Australians, as shown in the use of Australian English spellings, hence lending it a cachet of credibility.

    In short, adding the word "rules" to "Aussie rules football" will either make clear that it's a different game set with different rules, or at least invite questions that lead to clarification of the differences, and for this reason should not be omitted.
     

    ElaineG

    Senior Member
    USA/English
    Hey, I have no dog in this fight -- as you note, I have no passion for the sport. I was just trying to point out how some people, including Italian practitioners of the sport have chosen to call it.

    If you want to call it "football con le regole australiane" that's fine by me; I thought of that, but couldn't find any examples of this usage.
     

    Silvia

    Senior Member
    Italian
    I'm afraid you are veering far from the point here. What was the original question? "I am trying to think of a word for football in Australia. Would I use 'football' or 'Aussie Rules'"
    Now, we have to find a way to convey a concept in Italian language. If you want to make yourself understood, you will have to say "football australiano" and then you may go on explaining what it is and how you play it.

    Suppose you are writing an article about it, the title could be:
    "Football australiano - uno sport ancora poco conosciuto"

    This is how I see it. Please see my post #3 for the rest.
     

    Giannaclaudia

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Concordo con Silvia. Usare "calcio australiano", potrebbe essere compreso come "il calcio praticato in Australia", ma se viene usato il termine inglese Football con l'aggettivo australiano, è chiaramente qualcosa di diverso dal calcio nostrano.

    Purtroppo quando si parla di sport e orgoglio nazionale gli animi si scaldano, o no? Ma anche questo fa folclore ed io mi sono divertita a leggere tutti i post.
     
    Actually I'm very interested! I think that rather than insert a mere phrase to refer to the game, a rather hefty description may be needed as it seems a lot more unknown than first thought. I now feel the need to bring this game to the rest of the world :D . And I too am glad you liked the game Erick!
     
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