FR: 0,56 euros par watt, (ce) qui est environ

< Previous | Next >

ehmacy

Member
English - UK
Bonjour :)

"Le prix minimal pour les panneaux solaires est fixé à 0,56 euros par watt, ce qui est environ 25% au dessus des prix de l'UE."

I heard this sentence spoken by a native French speaker and it confused me: I thought "0,56 euros par watt" is a specific antecedent, so it should not be 'ce qui' but 'qui'. To my ear, the 'ce qui' sounds fine though, but I thought grammatically it isn't right.
Qu'est-ce que je ne comprends pas?
Merci d'avance :)
 
Last edited:
  • Maître Capello

    Mod et ratures
    French – Switzerland
    The difference in this context is similar to "that" vs. "which".

    … est fixé à 0,56 euro par watt qui est environ 25 %… = … is set to 0.56 euros per watt that is about 25%…
    … est fixé à 0,56 euro par watt, ce qui est environ 25 %… = … is set to 0.56 euros per watt, which is about 25%…

    The latter is therefore more appropriate because qui alone could have just watt as antecedent whereas ce qui necessarily refers to the whole preceding phrase.
     
    Last edited:

    ehmacy

    Member
    English - UK
    Merci pour votre réponse.
    So, in order to fit with the specific/non-specific antecedent rule and qui/ce qui, would it be correct to say that there are potentially two specific/definite antecedents in the sentence and, since the antecedent is ambiguous (because qui could refer to the whole phrase or just watt) then it is indefinite? Or is it rather that there is only one definite/specific antecedent (watt), and in order to refer back to the whole phrase then ce qui is needed?
    The difference (je pense) is whether a phrase can be a specific antecedent or not?
     

    Maître Capello

    Mod et ratures
    French – Switzerland
    What "specific/non-specific" antecedent rule are you talking about? :confused: The choice between qui and ce qui doesn't depend on whether or not the antecedent is specific or definite…
     

    Maître Capello

    Mod et ratures
    French – Switzerland
    I don't like the wording used by about.com. I think it is confusing because the antecedent of what they call "indefinite relative pronouns" is usually not indefinite! As a matter of fact, the antecedent in your sample sentence is the whole phrase "Le prix minimal pour les panneaux solaires est fixé à 0,56 euros par watt", which is specific/definite.

    In my opinion, ce qui is not a relative pronoun in itself – although it is usually translated as a relative pronoun in English: "what" or "which" (not just "what" as suggested by about.com). It is indeed a demonstrative pronoun (ce = that/it [pronoun], the thing) followed by a relative pronoun (qui = that/which [relative pronoun]). The demonstrative pronoun ce is added when the relative pronoun (qui, que, dont, etc.) cannot be connected directly to its antecedent, whether because there is a preposition in between or because the antecedent is a whole phrase.

    Here is another example where both qui and ce qui are possible, with a different nuance or emphasis. The antecedent is underlined.

    Elle lui a offert une montre, ce qui lui a fait très plaisir. = She gave him a watch, which pleased him very much. → Her giving a watch to him pleased him very much.
    Elle lui a offert une montre qui lui a fait très plaisir. = She gave him a watch that pleased him very much. → The watch pleased him very much.
     
    < Previous | Next >
    Top