FR: C'est une excellente idée que tu apprennes la langue arabe.

Ibn Nacer

Senior Member
French - France
Salut,

Comment traduiriez-vous ces deux phrases ?

- C'est une excellente idée que tu apprennes la langue arabe.
- C'est une excellente idée d'apprendre la langue arabe.

Merci.
 
  • Amirali1383koohi

    Senior Member
    Persian
    Bonjour cher ami !
    1- إنها فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم اللغة العربية./ هذه هي فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم اللغة العربية
    2- إن تعليم اللغة العربية هي فكرة رائعة/ تعلم اللغة العربية هي فكرة رائعة
    J'espère que ma réponse est correcte.
    Bonne chance!
     

    Ibn Nacer

    Senior Member
    French - France
    Thanks a lot to both of you.

    I also thought about this structure : إنها فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم اللغة العربية

    But I had a doubt: is it correct to make the connection with أن ?
    In this case the word فكرة is khabar inna so what is the function of أن تتعلم اللغة العربية ?

    Thank you.


    -----------------------
    2- إن تعليم اللغة العربية هي فكرة رائعة/ تعلم اللغة العربية هي فكرة رائعة
    2- تعلم/تعلمك اللغة العربية هي فكرة رائعة
    Is the part of the sentence "تعلم/تعلمك اللغة العربية" considered feminine ?
    Is it correct to use the pronoun هو ?
     

    Amirali1383koohi

    Senior Member
    Persian
    Thanks a lot to both of you.
    Your welcome
    Is the part of the sentence "تعلم/تعلمك اللغة العربية" considered feminine ?
    Is it correct to use the pronoun هو ?
    In my opinion the word (هي) refers to (فكرة).
    And as you know, the word (فكرة) is female
    and here u can't use هو
    I also thought about this structure : إنها فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم اللغة العربية

    But I had a doubt: is it correct to make the connection with أن ?
    In this case the word فكرة is khabar inna so what is the function of أن تتعلم اللغة العربية ?
    Actually I think you confused the word (إنّ) with (أنْ).
    Generally, sentences that express hope, concern, demand, desire or the like begin with (أنْ). In this type of verbs the verb does not refer to the present time!(Exactly at the present time)، That is, when the word (أنْ) comes with (مضارع منصوب), the verbs of the Subjunctive Mood are created.
     
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    Ibn Nacer

    Senior Member
    French - France
    In my opinion the word (هي) refers to (فكرة).
    And as you know, the word (فكرة) is female
    and here u can't use هو
    Thank you.
    I thought that this pronoun referred to the subject (mubtada' --> "تعلم/تعلمك اللغة العربية") and not to the predicate (khabar ---> فكرة).

    It should be checked with what, the separation pronoun should agree...

    Actually I think you confused the word (إنّ) with (أنْ).
    Generally, sentences that express hope, concern, demand, desire or the like begin with (أنْ). In this type of verbs the verb does not refer to the present time!(Exactly at the present time)، That is, when the word (أنْ) comes with (مضارع منصوب), the verbs of the Subjunctive Mood are created.
    Thank you.

    Yes I know it has a difference between إنّ and أنْ. When I wrote "In this case the word فكرة is khabar inna..." I wanted to talk about the first word of the sentence : إنها (innahaa).

    This part of the sentence أن تتعلم اللغة العربية is a مصدر مؤول , it is equivalent to to تعلمك اللغة العربية so we could reformulate the sentence :

    إنها فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم اللغة العربية like this :
    إنها فكرة رائعة تعلمك اللغة العربية

    It seems strange* to me and I wondered what is the grammatical function of this مصدر مؤول...

    * But I have no problem (for example) with this sentence : تعلمك اللغة العربية فكرة رائعة... In this case the word تعلم is the subject (mubtada')...

    This sentence فكرة رائعة تعلمك اللغة العربية ** (without إنها) also seems to me less strange, in this case the word تعلم is the predicate (khabar)...

    ** or this sentence فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم اللغة العربية
     
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    Ibn Nacer

    Senior Member
    French - France
    I thought that this pronoun referred to the subject (mubtada' --> "تعلم/تعلمك اللغة العربية") and not to the predicate (khabar ---> فكرة).

    It should be checked with what, the separation pronoun should agree...
    I just saw a video with these two interesting examples :

    الحب هو الحياة
    الحياة هي الحب

    This shows that the separation pronoun agrees with the subject (mubtada') and not with the predicate (khabar). That's why I thought we should use the pronoun هو in the sentence تعلم/تعلمك اللغة العربية هو فكرة رائعة because the word تعلم is the subject (mubtada') and it is masculine ...

    I have to find a course on that ...
     
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    Sun-Shine

    Senior Member
    Arabic (Egypt)
    I think it’s تعلمك اللغة العربية هو فكرة رائعة but I’m not sure whether هي is also correct or not.

    "إنها فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم اللغة العربية"
    I asked about المصدر المؤول and the answer was:
    - It could be في محل نصب بدل "substitute" of the ها in إنها.
    - في محل رفع خبر لمبتدأ محذوف "a predicate for an omitted إنها فكرة رائعة هي أن تتعلم اللغة العربية" <-- "مبتدأ"
    - في محل جر بحرف جر محذوف "genitive case" --> "إنها فكرة رائعة بأن تتعلم اللغة العربية"
     

    Ibn Nacer

    Senior Member
    French - France
    @Sun-Shine Thank you very much.

    I think it’s تعلمك اللغة العربية هو فكرة رائعة but I’m not sure whether هي is also correct or not.
    Thank you. I have not yet found a course on this point but it seems more logical to use the pronoun هو because it must agree with the subject (mubtada') and not with the predicate(khabar)
    - It could be في محل نصب بدل "substitute" of the ها in إنها.
    - في محل رفع خبر لمبتدأ محذوف "a predicate for an omitted إنها فكرة رائعة هي أن تتعلم اللغة العربية" <-- "مبتدأ"
    Thank you.

    These two analyzes made me think that the suffix pronoun in إنها should be ه and not ها because it refers to المصدر المؤول :

    إنه فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم اللغة العربية or إنه فكرة رائعة تعلمك اللغة العربية

    What do you think ?
     

    Sun-Shine

    Senior Member
    Arabic (Egypt)
    You're welcome.
    it seems more logical to use the pronoun هو :tick:
    Because the pronoun هو refers to تعلّم not فكرة.
    These two analyzes made me think that the suffix pronoun in إنها should be ه and not ها because it refers to المصدر المؤول :

    إنه فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم اللغة العربية or إنه فكرة رائعة تعلمك اللغة العربية

    What do you think ?
    إنها فكرة
    فكرة is feminine so the pronoun is هي.
    After thinking, this may depend on إعراب and which word the pronoun refers to.
     

    Ibn Nacer

    Senior Member
    French - France
    Because the pronoun هو refers to تعلّم not فكرة.
    Thank you.
    إنها فكرة
    فكرة is feminine so the pronoun is هي.
    After thinking, this may depend on إعراب and which word the pronoun refers to.
    Yes the word فكرة is feminine but it seems to me that the pronoun does not refer to this word, I think it refers to المصدر المؤول...

    I read it like this : إنه، تعلمك اللغة العربية، فكرة رائعة
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    The pronoun is totally unnecessary. You can simply say:
    إن تعلُّمك العربية فكرة رائعة
    إنها فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم العربية

    (you can also drop إن/إنها) and still have correct sentences.
     

    Ibn Nacer

    Senior Member
    French - France
    Thank you Cherine,

    The pronoun is totally unnecessary. You can simply say:
    إن تعلُّمك العربية فكرة رائعة
    إنها فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم العربية
    Yes both have a close meaning, the second(إنها فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم العربية) is closer to the structure of the French sentence: "C'est (assurément) une excellente idée que tu apprennes la langue arabe"...

    And I would translate the first (إن تعلُّمك العربية فكرة رائعة) rather like this: "(assurément) (le fait) que tu apprennes la langue arabe est une excellente idée"...

    (you can also drop إن/إنها) and still have correct sentences.
    Does this sentence فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم العربية sounds good ?

    And this sentence إنها فكرة رائعة تعلمك اللغة العربية sounds good ?

    إنها فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم العربية
    We also discussed the use of the pronoun ها in إنها ...

    Should not we use the masculine pronoun ه like this : إنه فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم اللغة العربية or إنه فكرة رائعة تعلمك اللغة العربية ? Since this pronoun refers to تعلمك or أن تتعلم and not to the word فكرة ?

    What do you think ?

    Merci.
     

    Sun-Shine

    Senior Member
    Arabic (Egypt)
    Does this sentence فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم العربية sounds good ? :tick:

    And this sentence إنها فكرة رائعة تعلمك اللغة العربية sounds good ? :tick:
    Should not we use the masculine pronoun ه like this : إنه فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم اللغة العربية or إنه فكرة رائعة تعلمك اللغة العربية ? Since this pronoun refers to تعلمك or أن تتعلم and not to the word فكرة ?
    إنها فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم/ تعلمك اللغة العربية since ها refers to فكرة not تعلمك.
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    I agree with Sun-Shine's post above. And with your translations, Ibn Nacer.
    Does this sentence فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم العربية sounds good ?

    And this sentence إنها فكرة رائعة تعلمك اللغة العربية sounds good ?
    They're good, but just to make sure I was clear when I talked about removing إن/أن: the sentences I had in my were:
    فكرة رائعة تعلمك اللغة العربية
    تعلمك العربية فكرة رائعة
     

    Ibn Nacer

    Senior Member
    French - France
    @Sun-Shine and Cherine, thank you...

    إنها فكرة رائعة أن تتعلم/ تعلمك اللغة العربية since ها refers to فكرة not تعلمك.
    I agree with Sun-Shine's post above.
    It seems to me that the pronoun ها is "ismu inna" and that the word فكرة is "khabar inna" ... and if we ask the question: "what is an excellent idea ( فكرة رائعة) ?" the answer is "she" (هي i.e ismu inna) and the answer is also "تعلمك or أن تتعلم " so the pronoun (ismu inna) refers to "تعلمك or أن تتعلم, right ?

    if so then this pronoun should be masculine, right?
     
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