FR: de (la) France - article

[NemoNobody]

"De France" is more about something like a product or a good produced in France.

e.g. : un vin de France

"De la France" is more more about France itself.

e.g. : le climat de la France.

 

[Seeda]

I think that in the example vin de France, this de means from "from" and not "of", i.e un vin venu/importé de France. But, despite being a native, I'm not sure.

 

[wildan1]

de France is often translated into English as French (adj.)

les vins de France - French wines
l'Ambassade de France - The French Embassy
​

de la France is usually translated as of/in France or even France's

le climat de la France - the climate of/in France
les amis de la France - France's friends
​

(This is not a scientific explanation--just what I observe personally.)

 

[geostan]

In one of my grammar texts it states:

The article is omitted when the reference is to kings, emperors, kingdoms, empires, etc., or to typical products. This would explain les vins de France.

It goes on to say that in other cases, there is no fixed rule about use or disuse of the article, However, it seems safer to use the article. And it gives this example.

L'histoire de (la) France de 1804 à 1815 est l'histoire de Napoléon.

I think in this example, however, I would have used the article because of the further qualification of the dates.

I think there have been other posts about this issue.

 

[Dhs]

So will it be les monuments de France ou les monuments de la France? Laquelle est correcte?

 

[Maître Capello]

Both are correct per se, but the appropriate wording depends on the exact context.

Anyway, a good alternative is probably the use of the adjective français.

 

[zapspan]

Est-ce que ce serait "une carte de France" ou "une carte de la France"? [avec le sens "a map of France" et non plus le sens "a map from France"]

 

[Garoubet]

Les deux se disent, la première expression étant la plus usitée. Avec le contexte, on peut faire facilement la différence entre
T'as une carte de la France? - a map of France
T'as reçu une carte de la France - You've got a postcard from France.

 

[Bezoard]

Oui, qu'il s'agisse de la carte postale ou de la représentation du pays, on peut employer les expressions avec ou sans article, et cela indépendamment du contexte me semble-t-il. Autrement dit, on pourrait tout aussi bien avoir :
T'as une carte de France? - a map of France
T'as reçu une carte de France ? - You've got a postcard from France.

 

[avago]

Bonjour à tous. To say someone is from a feminine country, it's venir de (France) rather than de la. Does this rule apply in other use, e.g. loin de France ? près de France ?

 

[Maître Capello]

It applies to some other uses but certainly not all:

• sometimes when used as a noun complement, e.g., les routes de France
• but not always, e.g., la superficie de France → la superficie de la France
• loin de France
  
• près de France → près de la France

it's venir de (France) rather than de la

Note that both are possible depending on context, but the omission of the article is indeed more common.

See also FR: venir de l'/d'Angleterre, de (la) France, du Canada - article devant les noms de pays.

 

[avago]

Very helpful. Merci Maître Capello.