Fr: En effet

< Previous | Next >

Ibn Nacer

Senior Member
French - France
Bonsoir,

Nous pouvons voir sur cette image un couple typique de paysans français,en effet nous voyons une fourche à côté de l'homme et une charrette contenant deux sacs derrière la femme.


J'essaie de traduire la partie en bleu :

نَسْتَطِيعُ أنْ نَرَى فِي هَذِهِ الصُّورَةِ زَوْجَيْنِ نَمُوذَجِيَّيْنِ مِنَ الفَلَّاحِينَ الفَرَنْسِيِّينَ بالفِعْلِ/في الواقِعِ نَرَى مِذْراةً إِلَى جَانِبِ الرَّجُلِ وَكَارَّةً/عَرَبةَ نَقْلٍ تَحْتَوِي عَلَى حَقِيبَتَيْنِ خَلْفَ الامْرأةِ
Pour dire "en effet" on utilise بالفِعْلِ ou في الواقِعِ ? Et pour "charrette" c'est كَارَّةً ou عَرَبةَ نَقْلٍ ?

Merci.
 
  • barkoosh

    Senior Member
    Arabic - Lebanon
    If you want to follow the principle of meaning-based translation, بالفعل and في الواقع are both meaningless in this sentence (same as نستطيع أن :D). A simple و can do the job.

    I think كارّة is used in the slang of some dialect. عَرَبة alone works better.

    PS: It should be المرأة not الامرأة.
     

    Xence

    Senior Member
    Algeria (Arabic - French)
    Voici comment je traduirais cette phrase:

    يمكننا أن نشاهد في هذه الصورة زوجين نموذجيين من الفلاحين الفرنسيين ، وفعلاً نلاحظ مدراة بجانب الرجل وعربة بها كَيْسان خلف المرأة


    P.S: Il serait plus judicieux de réserver le terme حقيبة pour une valise ou une malle.
     

    barkoosh

    Senior Member
    Arabic - Lebanon
    I agree with Xence regarding using كيس instead of حقيبة. I think it's كِيس, at least in fusHa.
     
    Last edited:

    Ibn Nacer

    Senior Member
    French - France
    Merci beaucoup Barkoosh et Xence pour votre aide.

    Le titre du fil a été changé (par un modérateur je suppose) alors traitons le sujet du nouveau titre : Comment diriez-vous "en effet" en arabe ?

    J'ai trouvé deux expressions بالفِعْلِ ou في الواقِعِ ? Qu'en pensez-vous ?

    Merci.
     

    Tracer

    Senior Member
    American English
    I would actually change the French. Instead of "en effect", I would use----> c'est-à-dire.....then you could say:

    c'est-à-dire (Fr)----->that is (to say) (Engl) ----------> يــعـني (Ar).

    "En effect" just doesn't seem right to me here.....neither do بالفِعْلِ ou في الواقِعِ in this context, as suggested by barkoosh.
     

    Xence

    Senior Member
    Algeria (Arabic - French)
    I would actually change the French. Instead of "en effect", I would use----> c'est-à-dire.....then you could say:

    c'est-à-dire (Fr)----->that is (to say) (Engl) ----------> يــعـني (Ar).

    I am not sure to agree with this. The French expression en effet (not en effect) means indeed or in fact. By extension, it can be used to confirm what was just said (confirmer ce qui vient d'être dit) according to TLFi (B-2-a). This is exactly how I understand Ibn Nacer's sentence.

    The expression c'est-à-dire, on the contrary, is used to explain or expand upon something that was just said (= id est, that is to say, in other words...). This is a quite different meaning.
     

    Tracer

    Senior Member
    American English
    I am not sure to agree with this. The French expression en effet (not en effect) means indeed or in fact. By extension, it can be used to confirm what was just said (confirmer ce qui vient d'être dit) according to TLFi (B-2-a). This is exactly how I understand Ibn Nacer's sentence.

    The expression c'est-à-dire, on the contrary, is used to explain or expand upon something that was just said (= id est, that is to say, in other words...). This is a quite different meaning.
    D'accord. The difference between (or the existence of) of "en effect/en effet" is new to me. Your وفعلاً appears to be the best choice here.
     

    uas60

    Senior Member
    English; Urdu; Student of Arabic/French
    (C'est pas le question de discussion, je sais, mais...) Est-ce que c'est correct d'utiliser "zowjayn"? Quand je l'entends, je pense de deux 'types' ou 'catégories' de quelquechose. Que pensez vous de شخصين?

    (By the way, I love it when you get these Arabo-Franco-English threads... I feel very sophisticated/cultured lol)
     

    barkoosh

    Senior Member
    Arabic - Lebanon
    I found the following in Larousse Chambers français-anglais:
    en effet locution adverbiale
    1. [effectivement]
    oui, je m'en souviens en effet yes, I do remember
    c'est en effet la meilleure solution it's actually ou in fact the best solution
    on peut en effet interpréter l'événement de cette façon it is indeed possible to interpret what happened in that way
    2. [introduisant une explication]
    je ne pense pas qu'il vienne; en effet il est extrêmement pris ces derniers temps I don't think he'll come, he's really very busy these days
    il n'a pas pu venir; en effet, il était malade he was unable to come since he was ill
    3. [dans une réponse]
    drôle d'idée! — en effet! what a funny idea! — indeed ou isn't it!
    I think that "en effet" in "...en effet nous voyons une fourche à côté de l'homme..." is the same as number 2. It only introduces some explication. Forcing a بالفعل or في الواقع into the Arabic sentence makes it a bit awkward for a simple reason: this is not how we talk.
     
    Last edited:

    Xence

    Senior Member
    Algeria (Arabic - French)
    I think that "en effet" in "...en effet nous voyons une fourche à côté de l'homme..." is the same as number 2. It only introduces some explication.
    Here, in number 2, the word "explication" means that we want to make clear the cause or the reason of what was just said (Ce qui expose la cause, la raison d'une chose difficile à appréhender. TLFi: B). In this case, en effet may be replaced by the French conjunction car, i.e the Arabic لأنّ.

    je ne pense pas qu'il vienne; en effet il est extrêmement pris ces derniers temps = je ne pense pas qu'il vienne, car il est extrêmement pris ces derniers temps
    لا أعتقد أنه سيأتي لأنه مشغول كثيرا قي هذه الآونة

    If this is what is intended in Ibn Nacer's sentence, then we can translate it as follows:
    يمكننا أن نشاهد في هذه الصورة زوجين نموذجيين من الفلاحين الفرنسيين ، لأنّنا نلاحظ مدراة بجانب الرجل وعربة بها كَيْسان خلف المرأة

    Otherwise, I stick to my previous suggestion (post #3). I agree that في الواقع is not appropriate here and can be used as an equivalent to the expressions en fait or en réalité. But if we have to confirm something in Arabic, I think that فعلاً is rather a common word and could be a good alternative here.
     

    Xence

    Senior Member
    Algeria (Arabic - French)
    حيث me semble aussi une bonne option, au cas où il s'agirait d'une confirmation.
     

    ayed

    Senior Member
    Arabic(Saudi)
    ويظهر في الصورة رجل وزوجته وهما مثال حي على الفلاح الفرنسي حيث تبدو مذراة بجانب الزوج وكيسان في عربة خلف المرأة
     
    < Previous | Next >
    Top