FR: (l')un ; (l')autre

[Mayi]

Salut,
I'm a little bit confused about how to use "un", "l'un", "autre", "l'autre".
Could I say: J'ai deux assistants: l'un qui me guide, l'autre qui fait la mise au point. O J'ai deux assistants: un qui me guide, autre qui fait la mise au point.
Are both correct? ¿What's the difference, if any?
Thank you.
Mayi

 

[Agnès E.]

I shoud say :

either "l'un qui me guide, l'autre qui fait la mise au point"
or "un qui me guide, un autre qui fait la mise au point"

I prefer the first one.

 

[Mayi]

Bonjour Agnes,
Merci de votre réponse rapide. C'est claire, maintenant.

 

[le chat noir]

"l'un" et "l'autre" implies that there are only two people involved : "un" designates the first individual (so you can use the definite article), and "autre" designates also an individual (the one who remains after you picked the other from the pair).

If you say "j'ai des assistants", it means there may be more than 2 of them, so using "l'un" et "l'autre" would not be consistent.

If you say "j'ai deux assistants", you can choose to use the definite article or not : if you say "l'un fait ceci et l'autre fait cela", it means each assistant does only a given job all the time. If you say "un fait ceci et un autre fait cela" it means they can do both jobs (but each one does only a given job at a given time).

Hopes that makes sense and dit clarify things instead of adding confusion .

 

[franceaz]

Et non, ce n'est pas claire, c'est clair.

Claire

 

[Mayi]

Thank u chat noir, very good explanation.
Claire, C'est clair, merci de me corriger. Je suis toujours en train d'apprendre le français.

 

[Whodunit]

Thank u chat noir, very good explanation. C'est clair, merci franceaz de me corriger. Je suis toujours en train d'apprendre le français.

Encore une correction, Mayi.

 

[Mayi]

Merci, Who. Je l'avais déjà corrigée.

 

[Whodunit]

Merci, Who. Je l'avais déjà corrigé.

Je ne sais pas pourquoi tu as écrit un extra-e? Il n'y a pas de nom féminin que l'object "l'" remplace.

 

[fetchezlavache]

l' stands for 'erreur' i would suspect, so it's feminine. je l'avais déjà corrigée could be correct.

 

[Whodunit]

l' stands for 'erreur' i would suspect, so it's feminine. je l'avais déjà corrigée could be correct.

Ah, I though it stood for 'le e' or 'le mot', not for 'la faute' and 'une erreur'. Isn't erreur an exception, because most words ending on -eur are actually masculine?

 

[fetchezlavache]

erm, i don't think so, la peur, la terreur, la chaleur, la frayeur, la chandeleur etc...

 

[Whodunit]

Ah, I though it stood for 'le e' or 'le mot', not for 'la faute' and 'une erreur'. Isn't erreur an exception, because most words ending on -eur are actually masculine?

I didn't say "every".

What words are more? eur = masculine OR eur = feminine? I think the proper feminine ending is -euse.

Er - I think peur doesn't count.

 

[LV4-26]

Now that I think of it, I would say (but this would sure deserve a deeper investigation) that the masculine words ending in -eur are those who refer to the person who does something generally suggested by the radical of the word, like
ramoneur, menteur, laboureur, and so many more..
(celui qui ramone, qui ment, qui laboure...)
It doesn't work for "agriculteur" and others, though (since the verb "agriculter" doesn't exist). But all those people do something, anyway.

(I think I'd explain that better in French).

 

[Cath.S.]

Now that I think of it, I would say (but this would sure deserve a deeper investigation) that the masculine words ending in -eur are those who refer to the person who does something generally suggested by the radical of the word, like
ramoneur, menteur, laboureur, and so many more..
(celui qui ramone, qui ment, qui laboure...)
It doesn't work for "agriculteur" and others, though (since the verb "agriculter" doesn't exist). But all those people do something, anyway.

(I think I'd explain that better in French).

It does work for agriculteur, but only etymologically as agriculture comes from the Latin agri = fields + colere = to cultivate, so the verb is there, but in hiding!

 

[Mayi]

Yes, that's exactly what I was referring to: la faute.
Thank you all!

l' stands for 'erreur' i would suspect, so it's feminine. je l'avais déjà corrigée could be correct.

 

[Whodunit]

It does work for agriculteur, but only etymologically as agriculture comes from the Latin agri = fields + colere = to cultivate, so the verb is there, but in hiding!

Very intersting ...