FR: pronom singulier/pluriel pour reprendre "famille"

[lka23]

I want to say: I bought them gifts. (Them being my family)

Would you use leur or lui to refer to ma famille?

So would it be: Je leur ai acheté des cadeaux. Or would I use lui because technically the word famille is singular? Leur seems to make more sense to me but I don't know.

 

[pointvirgule]

E.g. Pour faire plaisir à ma famille, je lui ai acheté des cadeaux. (Grammatically correct, but sounds weird.)
Pour faire plaisir aux membres de ma famille, je leur ai acheté des cadeaux.

 

[Micia93]

Even if it's not logicial, I'd say "pour faire plaisir à ma famille, je leur ai acheté des cadeaux"
"famille" is to understand as a group here, and using a plural verb doesn't schock me (I may be wrng so)
it's the same with "on" => speaking of several persons : "on est beaux, non?"
what do you think Point Virgule ?

 

[Maître Capello]

The syllepse (agreement according to meaning and not to grammar rules) is indeed quite common and natural in this case. Hence most natives would say Micia's suggestion:

Pour faire plaisir à ma famille, je leur ai acheté des cadeaux.

 

[pointvirgule]

Pour faire plaisir à ma famille, je leur ai acheté des cadeaux.

Whatever you say, but that looks godawful to me.

 

[euquila]

How does this in any way sound god awful?

Use leur because there are 'members' in a family... you omit 'members' but keep leur.

Je donne des cadeaux à ma famille.

Je leur donne des cadeaux.

Nobody says: "je lui donne des cadeaux" when talking about their family.

 

[pointvirgule]

It is my opinion as a native francophone that leur, when used to refer to a singular noun, albeit a collective one, sounds wrong. I would personally avoid saying and writing it. I've said my peace on the matter and I do not wish to insist.

 

[zapspan]

The syllepse (agreement according to meaning and not to grammar rules) is indeed quite common and natural in this case. Hence most natives would say Micia's suggestion:

Pour faire plaisir à ma famille, je leur ai acheté des cadeaux.

Would the same apply to a direct object pronoun? For example:

Question: Est-ce que tu vois souvent ta famille ?
Réponse: Oui, je les vois souvent ? or Oui, je la vois souvent ?

 

[olivier68]

Yes, both are possible. Syllepse agreed here (à mon seul avis !).

 

[Maître Capello]

Would the same apply to a direct object pronoun?

Yes, it applies to all types of pronouns (subject or object, direct or indirect).

This is no different from English:

My family came to visit us on the weekend. I hadn't seen them in a while. I told them they could stay at our place but they preferred to stay in a hotel.

Ma famille est venue nous rendre visite ce week-end. Je ne les avais pas vus depuis longtemps. Je leur ai dit qu'ils pouvaient dormir à la maison, mais ils ont préféré aller à l'hôtel.

 

[zapspan]

Thank you, Maître Capello.

I definitely see the parallel with English (the change to plural number based on meaning) However, this doesn't operate 100% the same in both languages: whereas olivier68 said that it's ok to answer "Oui, je la vois souvent" as one possible answer to the question "Est-ce que tu vois souvent ta famille ?", in English, we couldn't answer "Do you see your family often?: with "Yes, I see it often."

 

[Maître Capello]

olivier68 said that it's ok to answer "Oui, je la vois souvent"

Yes, unlike in English, the singular is indeed fine in French in this particular example. That being said, I think I'd more naturally use the plural as far as I'm concerned (Oui, je les vois souvent).

Ma famille est venue nous rendre visite ce week-end.
Je ne l'avais pas vue depuis longtemps. / Je ne les avais pas vus depuis longtemps.
Je lui ai dit qu'elle pouvait dormir à la maison, mais elle a préféré aller à l'hôtel. / Je leur ai dit qu'ils pouvaient dormir à la maison, mais ils ont préféré aller à l'hôtel.

 

[zapspan]

Je lui ai dit qu'elle pouvait dormir à la maison, mais elle a préféré aller à l'hôtel.

Very interesting. Any thoughts on why this sentence is not acceptable, whereas the other example you give with a singular (je ne l'avais pas vue depuis longtemps.) is?