FR: qui / que / qu' - élision

  • Fred_C

    Senior Member
    Français
    Hi,
    I agree.
    In very casual speech, you may hear "qu'ont" instead of "qui ont", though. This sounds casual and somewhat childish.
    You may even see it written in a quote of what someone said. (Although it is quite possible to correct "qu'ont" back to "qui ont" in quotes)
    But in normal speech and in texts, it should stay "qui ont".
     
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    Sarah_C

    Senior Member
    England, English
    I think
    Que + il -> Qu'il
    but
    Qui + il -> Qui il
    However, it is fairly uncommon to find qui il because qui usually comes after the subject...I'm not sure I can explain it very well, I'm afraid - do you already know about subject and object with qui and que?
     

    vincent7520

    Senior Member
    Actually I do not see how "qui il" can occur as qui and il are both subjects when used in a sentence :
    "qui il est ?"is improper vs. "qui est-il ?…"
    and "Pierre qui il est grand" / "Lui qui il est grand" / " la dame qui elle est belle" / "celui qui il a volé …" do not make any sense contrary to "Pierre qui est grand" / "Lui qui est fort" / "la dame qui est belle" / "celui qui a volé"
     
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    CapnPrep

    Senior Member
    AmE
    You can have a relative clause introduced by a preposition:
    la femme avec qui il s'est marié
    or an indirect question:
    je me demande qui il va rencontrer là-bas​
     

    vincent7520

    Senior Member
    All too true !!!…
    my shortcoming. :confused:
    So much for answering too quickly :eek: :eek: :eek:

    However I would rather say "la femme avec laquelle il s'est marié"
    But that is only a matter of taste, both are correct … and "je me demande qui il va rencontrer là-bas" has no alternative I can think of :eek: :eek: :eek:
     
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    Finkie

    Member
    U.S.A. English
    This has to be pretty basic but when I saw the phrase: interprété par Max Rostal qu'accompagne Ian Whyte à la tête du BBC Scottish Orchestra, my brain told me this was wrong, that it should be qui accompagne even though I know we say j'ai au lieu de je ai, etc.

    My French training was almost 50 years ago so am I wrong or?

    Merci d'avance!
     

    johndot

    Senior Member
    English - England
    Greetings!

    I think you’re still right—that que is elided, but not qui. There is just the possibility that in very informal writing ... but only a native can confirm that.
     
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    Kelly B

    Senior Member
    USA English
    You are right, qui isn't elided when followed with a vowel.

    The other possibility that comes to mind is when the usual subject/verb order is reversed after que. If the sentence is intended to mean "that Ian White accompanies," then que would be the intended conjunction. That seems a bit of a stretch in this particular sentence, but perhaps...?

    A better example of that would be "the things that Mr. Jones does are...": les choses que fait M. Jones sont...."
     

    itka

    Senior Member
    français
    interprété par Max Rostal qu'accompagne Ian Whyte à la tête du BBC Scottish Orchestra,

    You're right, Kelly B, the intended relative pronoun is "que" not "qui".
    Ian Whyte [...] accompagne Max Rostal.
    Max Rostal [est l'homme] que Ian Whyte accompagne.

    Que is usually elided, qui is not.
     

    jsrwang

    Senior Member
    Cantonese, US English
    From the way the sentence is worded, Max Rostal is the soloist and Ian Whyte is the conductor accompanying the soloist. In that case interprété par Max Rostal qu'accompagne Ian Whyte would be correct since it really means Ian Whyte accompagne Max Rostal, as Kelly B pointed out.
     

    claudie24

    Member
    UK
    FRANCAIS
    "interprété par Max Rostal qu'accompagne Ian Whyte à la tête du BBC Scottish Orchestra" ..this sentence is correct, it means that Ian Whyte is accompanying Max Rostal. If you were using "qui", you would say "interprété par Max Rostal qui est accompagné par Ian Whyte.
     

    Nicomon

    Senior Member
    Langue française ♀
    I agree that the sentence is correct but in my opinion, and just as itka explained, it would sound better if it was written as :

    interprété par Max Rostal qu'Ian White accompagne à la tête du BBC Scottish Orchestra
     
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