FR: stage de vente / règles de la vente - article

Discussion in 'French and English Grammar / Grammaire française et anglaise' started by Pierre_zane, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. Pierre_zane Member

    Bonjour à tous.
    J'ai vu cette phrase : Vous voulez suivre le stage de vente? Et dans le même texte, il y a une autre phase comme celle-ci : Revoyons ensemble les règles de la vente.
    My question is, why is there no article in the first sentense but the article "la" in the second? Does it make any difference, or is it just a personal reference?
    Merci d'avance.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2013
  2. carocome Senior Member

    Je ne saurais expliquer la règle mais, effectivement, la phrase est correcte : stage de vente et règles de la vente
  3. Maître Capello

    Maître Capello Mod et ratures

    Suisse romande
    French – Switzerland
    À noter que l'on pourrait également dire règles de vente et que ce serait même plus naturel (en tout cas pour moi).
  4. timpeac

    timpeac Senior Member

    English (England)
    As I see that you speak English too I thought it worth pointing out that we have a similar grammatical situation in English - using a noun as an adjective or saying "xxxx of noun". So "un stage de vente" = "sales training" (and not "training of sales") and "les règles de (la) vente" = "the rules of selling" (=de la) or "selling rules" (for "de" alone). It's a difference of emphasis.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2013
  5. jann

    jann co-mod'

    English - USA
    Stage de vente is definitely this "attributive" usage, for lack of a better term, that allows no article in French and which is commonly expressed, as Timpeac has pointed out, with a noun used adjectivally in English ("sales training, sales internship").

    Without context, I tend to interpret les règles de la vente as implying something specific. If not a certain, specific sale -- "the rules of the sale" -- then at least a particular type of sale, perhaps the rules of the company or exchange (something akin to thus essentially nos pratiques de vente).

    But if the intended meaning is merely the generic "selling rules" then I expect the definite article to be omitted on the same model as stage de vente.
  6. Maître Capello

    Maître Capello Mod et ratures

    Suisse romande
    French – Switzerland
    I would tend to interpret it that way as well, but it would be also possible to use the definite article without any specific sale in thought. La vente may refer to l'art de la vente. The definite article may also be used if opposing vente to, e.g., achats.

    Vous avez déjà vu les règles pour les achats. Revoyons ensemble les règles de la vente.

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