from 12,525,612 houses (number)

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by Ali Ridho, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. Ali Ridho Member

    Indonesian
    Please correct the Arabic number below

    from 12,525,612 houses

    مِن اِثنَي عَشَرَ وَخَمسِمِائَةِ وَخَمسَةٍ وَعِشرِینَ أَلفِ وَاثنَي عَشَرَ مِلیُنِ بَیتٍ

    thanks
     
  2. sun_shine 331995

    sun_shine 331995 Senior Member

    Arabic (mostly Egyptian)
    مِن اثنَيْ عَشَرَ مِليونا وَخَمسِمِائَةٍ وَخَمسَةٍ وَعِشرِینَ أَلفا وَ سِتِّمِائَةٍ و اثنَيْ عشر بَيْتا
    And I'll ask more about it to make sure.
     
  3. Ali Ridho Member

    Indonesian
    Thanks for your reply

    مِليونا ? Is this Arabic in Egypt...
     
  4. sun_shine 331995

    sun_shine 331995 Senior Member

    Arabic (mostly Egyptian)
    In Egypt it's always مليون.

    In fusha it's مليون too.
    وفي حالة النصب تصبح مليونا
     
  5. Mahaodeh Senior Member

    London, UK
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    It's not only in Egypt, the same is used in the Levant, the Gulf, Iraq, Yemen, and Sudan. These I know for sure. I can't be as confident about other Arabic speaking countries but I believe that they use مليون for million also.
     
  6. sun_shine 331995

    sun_shine 331995 Senior Member

    Arabic (mostly Egyptian)
    @Mahaodeh
    What do you think about my answer?
     
  7. Mahaodeh Senior Member

    London, UK
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    I'm going to be frank with you, I avoid giving any input when it comes to numbers because I'm not very good at it. I might be able to manage up to three digits but I wouldn't attempt to correct a number like the one you gave.

    Having said that, it seems fine to me.
     
  8. sun_shine 331995

    sun_shine 331995 Senior Member

    Arabic (mostly Egyptian)
    All my friends were shocked when they saw this number.:D
    Because I still remember the grammer of numbers I tried and I got to this answer.
     
  9. Mahaodeh Senior Member

    London, UK
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    Yes, it is surprising, I barely remember the double digit numbers and make guesses about the three digit ones!
     
  10. analeeh Senior Member

    English - UK
    Yeah, I think this is right.

    No teens decline the ten for anything other than gender (3ashara vs 3asharata), which should be masculine for both milyōn and bayt. Twelve declines the number (uniquely among teens) for case. Every individual section connected by wa- should be declined for case somewhere if possible - here for genitive because of min. And the case and form of the counted noun is triggered by the closest thing, which for milyōn, 2alf and bayt are 12, 20, and 12 (all of which trigger sing. accusative) and for mi2a and mi2a are 5 and 6, which should trigger genitive plural (but mi2a always defaults in these cases to singular). So we get:

    Mina [thnay 3ashara milyōnan] wa-[khamsi mi2atin] wa-[3ishrīna 2alfan] wa-[sitti mi2atin] wa-[thnay 3ashara baytan]

    Where the ones in bold are genitive triggered by min and the underlined ones are case endings triggered by numbers. Getting rid of min and making it nominative should produce:

    من اثنا عشر مليونا وخمس مئة وعشرون الفا وست مئة واثنا عشر بيتا
    [ithnā 3ashara milyōnan] wa-[khamsu mi2atin] wa-[3ishrūna 2alfan] wa-[sittu mi2atin] wa-[thnā 3ashara baytan]

    Or accusative:
    [ithnay 3ashara milyōnan] wa-[khamsa mi2atin] wa-[3ishrīna 2alfan] wa-[sitta mi2atin] wa-[thnay 3ashara baytan]
     
  11. sun_shine 331995

    sun_shine 331995 Senior Member

    Arabic (mostly Egyptian)
  12. Ali Ridho Member

    Indonesian
    Thanks all:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  13. bearded

    bearded Senior Member

    Milano
    Italian
    Do you feel that Arabs (when speaking MSA, i.e. on official occasions or when reading a paper) can really/easily/spontaneously keep in mind all that, or would they rather pronounce the long number by simply omitting all case endings?
     
  14. sun_shine 331995

    sun_shine 331995 Senior Member

    Arabic (mostly Egyptian)
    In fusha, by practice you will pronounce the number correctly without thinking of the grammer.
    I do that sometimes, I don't remember the grammar of the number or the vowel of the end of the word but my tongue say it correctly without thinking.
     
  15. bearded

    bearded Senior Member

    Milano
    Italian
    Do you mean 'not always', i.e. there are other times when you don't pronounce the case endings? Would it sound dialectal without the final vowels?
     
  16. sun_shine 331995

    sun_shine 331995 Senior Member

    Arabic (mostly Egyptian)
    In fusha, the right way is to prounounce the final vowel ,however, a lot of people don't do that.
    exception: if you stop at the word you don't pronounce the final vowel.
     
  17. bearded

    bearded Senior Member

    Milano
    Italian
    Thank you, sun_shine.
     
  18. sun_shine 331995

    sun_shine 331995 Senior Member

    Arabic (mostly Egyptian)
    I wish you could understand what I mean.
    You're welcome.
     
  19. Mahaodeh Senior Member

    London, UK
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    Personally, I read long numbers as if they were in colloquial (unless they were written in words not numbers) because I know that I would make mistakes so I take the easy way out ;). I usually manage OK if it was written in words.

    I don't know if it's just me, but I would think that some do as I do.
     
  20. bearded

    bearded Senior Member

    Milano
    Italian
    I think I can understand very well what you mean, thank you again.
    I only asked because the rules for case endings in such a long number as 12525612 look so incredibly complicated, that even a native Arab has to be admired if he is able to pronounce it instinctively correctly ''without thinking''.

    PS. Now I have read #19 which confirms my surmise that even natives have sometimes difficulties in this field.;)
     
  21. Mahaodeh Senior Member

    London, UK
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    They have difficulties today, but I don't think that native Arabic speakers in the seventh or eighth century had any difficulties :D.
     
  22. sun_shine 331995

    sun_shine 331995 Senior Member

    Arabic (mostly Egyptian)
    :D:D
    The numbers rules is really difficult even for natives.
    Students study grammar at schools. They remember the basics asمبتدأ و خبر ، فاعل وفعل
    About the grammar of numbers and other rules they study them, pass the exams then say goodbye to these rules.:D
    Even I start to forget specially because I'm no longer studying Arabic.
     

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