from 12,525,612 houses (number)

Indonesian
#1
Please correct the Arabic number below

from 12,525,612 houses

مِن اِثنَي عَشَرَ وَخَمسِمِائَةِ وَخَمسَةٍ وَعِشرِینَ أَلفِ وَاثنَي عَشَرَ مِلیُنِ بَیتٍ

thanks
 
Arabic (Egyptian)
#2
مِن اثنَيْ عَشَرَ مِليونا وَخَمسِمِائَةٍ وَخَمسَةٍ وَعِشرِینَ أَلفا وَ سِتِّمِائَةٍ و اثنَيْ عشر بَيْتا
And I'll ask more about it to make sure.
 

Mahaodeh

Senior Member
Arabic, PA and IA.
#5
مِليونا ? Is this Arabic in Egypt...
It's not only in Egypt, the same is used in the Levant, the Gulf, Iraq, Yemen, and Sudan. These I know for sure. I can't be as confident about other Arabic speaking countries but I believe that they use مليون for million also.
 

Mahaodeh

Senior Member
Arabic, PA and IA.
#7
What do you think about my answer?
I'm going to be frank with you, I avoid giving any input when it comes to numbers because I'm not very good at it. I might be able to manage up to three digits but I wouldn't attempt to correct a number like the one you gave.

Having said that, it seems fine to me.
 

analeeh

Senior Member
English - UK
#10
مِن اثنَيْ عَشَرَ مِليونا وَخَمسِمِائَةٍ وَخَمسَةٍ وَعِشرِینَ أَلفا وَ سِتِّمِائَةٍ و اثنَيْ عشر بَيْتا
And I'll ask more about it to make sure.
Yeah, I think this is right.

No teens decline the ten for anything other than gender (3ashara vs 3asharata), which should be masculine for both milyōn and bayt. Twelve declines the number (uniquely among teens) for case. Every individual section connected by wa- should be declined for case somewhere if possible - here for genitive because of min. And the case and form of the counted noun is triggered by the closest thing, which for milyōn, 2alf and bayt are 12, 20, and 12 (all of which trigger sing. accusative) and for mi2a and mi2a are 5 and 6, which should trigger genitive plural (but mi2a always defaults in these cases to singular). So we get:

Mina [thnay 3ashara milyōnan] wa-[khamsi mi2atin] wa-[3ishrīna 2alfan] wa-[sitti mi2atin] wa-[thnay 3ashara baytan]

Where the ones in bold are genitive triggered by min and the underlined ones are case endings triggered by numbers. Getting rid of min and making it nominative should produce:

من اثنا عشر مليونا وخمس مئة وعشرون الفا وست مئة واثنا عشر بيتا
[ithnā 3ashara milyōnan] wa-[khamsu mi2atin] wa-[3ishrūna 2alfan] wa-[sittu mi2atin] wa-[thnā 3ashara baytan]

Or accusative:
[ithnay 3ashara milyōnan] wa-[khamsa mi2atin] wa-[3ishrīna 2alfan] wa-[sitta mi2atin] wa-[thnay 3ashara baytan]
 

bearded

Senior Member
Italian
#13
No teens decline the ten for anything other than gender (3ashara vs 3asharata), which should be masculine for both milyōn and bayt. Twelve declines the number (uniquely among teens) for case. Every individual section connected by wa- should be declined for case somewhere if possible - here for genitive because of min. And the case and form of the counted noun is triggered by the closest thing, which for milyōn, 2alf and bayt are 12, 20, and 12 (all of which trigger sing. accusative) and for mi2a and mi2a are 5 and 6, which should trigger genitive plural (but mi2a always defaults in these cases to singular). So we get....
Do you feel that Arabs (when speaking MSA, i.e. on official occasions or when reading a paper) can really/easily/spontaneously keep in mind all that, or would they rather pronounce the long number by simply omitting all case endings?
 
Arabic (Egyptian)
#14
Do you feel that Arabs (when speaking MSA, i.e. on official occasions or when reading a paper) can really/easily/spontaneously keep in mind all that, or would they rather pronounce the long number by simply omitting all case endings?
In fusha, by practice you will pronounce the number correctly without thinking of the grammer.
I do that sometimes, I don't remember the grammar of the number or the vowel of the end of the word but my tongue say it correctly without thinking.
 
Arabic (Egyptian)
#16
Do you mean 'not always', i.e. there are other times when you don't pronounce the case endings? Would it sound dialectal without the final vowels?
In fusha, the right way is to prounounce the final vowel ,however, a lot of people don't do that.
exception: if you stop at the word you don't pronounce the final vowel.
 

Mahaodeh

Senior Member
Arabic, PA and IA.
#19
Do you feel that Arabs (when speaking MSA, i.e. on official occasions or when reading a paper) can really/easily/spontaneously keep in mind all that, or would they rather pronounce the long number by simply omitting all case endings?
Personally, I read long numbers as if they were in colloquial (unless they were written in words not numbers) because I know that I would make mistakes so I take the easy way out ;). I usually manage OK if it was written in words.

I don't know if it's just me, but I would think that some do as I do.
 

bearded

Senior Member
Italian
#20
I wish you could understand what I mean.
I think I can understand very well what you mean, thank you again.
I only asked because the rules for case endings in such a long number as 12525612 look so incredibly complicated, that even a native Arab has to be admired if he is able to pronounce it instinctively correctly ''without thinking''.

PS. Now I have read #19 which confirms my surmise that even natives have sometimes difficulties in this field.;)
 

Mahaodeh

Senior Member
Arabic, PA and IA.
#21
PS. Now I have read #19 which confirms my surmise that even natives have sometimes difficulties in this field.;)
They have difficulties today, but I don't think that native Arabic speakers in the seventh or eighth century had any difficulties :D.
 
Arabic (Egyptian)
#22
They have difficulties today, but I don't think that native Arabic speakers in the seventh or eighth century had any difficulties :D.
:D:D
The numbers rules is really difficult even for natives.
Students study grammar at schools. They remember the basics asمبتدأ و خبر ، فاعل وفعل
About the grammar of numbers and other rules they study them, pass the exams then say goodbye to these rules.:D
Even I start to forget specially because I'm no longer studying Arabic.
 
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