From the Bottom of My Heart

Discussion in '日本語 (Japanese)' started by Taka, Sep 5, 2006.

  1. Taka New Member

    Note: I can't read any Japanese lettering, so please respond in romanji.

    I'm trying to say "from the bottom of my heart." If it helps, the context is: "Thank you, my little sister. From the bottom of my heart."
  2. Cereth

    Cereth Senior Member

    language of love
    kokoro kara domo arigatou!

    is the message really meant for your sister? or are you speaking figuratively?
    I don´t know if saying this sounds correct : Imouto kokoro kara domo arigatou!! (imouto= little sister)

    For example if my little sister´s name is Anna I would say:
    Annie chan kokoro kara domo arigatou ...

    As always I just try to help, but If you need a better answer wait for the natives opinions.
  3. Flaminius

    Flaminius coclea mod

    capita Iaponiae
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    Cereth, your translation is very natural.
    1. 心から (kokoro-kara) is from the heart ("the bottom of" is not very much used in this context).
    2. 妹 (little sister), as is often the case with many Japanese nouns, cannot be used vocatively. If one addresses to one's sister, her name should be used with optional titles indicating affection.

    My suggestion is:
    Annie-chan, kokoro-kara dōmo arigatō-ne.
    The last -ne particle helps the sentence convey intimate air (but this can be really optional).

    Flaminius, ne....
  4. Cereth

    Cereth Senior Member

    language of love
    Flam,Arigatou ne..;)
    I thought it was very weird to say "imouto" that is why I suggested to use the name with "chan"..
    I only would like to know why you wrote: kokoro-kara using (-)?
  5. Flaminius

    Flaminius coclea mod

    capita Iaponiae
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    It is my wont to join the noun and the postposition with a hyphen in order to avoid ambiguity. If the pronunciation is the sole matter, hyphens can be readily taken out, yo.....

  6. s_a_n_t_i

    s_a_n_t_i Senior Member

    Argentina - Córdoba
    Spanish (Argentina)
    Hi all.
    What about the expression 「心底(しんそこ)から~」, "Shinsoko kara"?
    I think this one might fit it's in written language, I consider this a little more expressive.

    What do you guys think?

    Best regards,
  7. Taka New Member

    Thanks you guys!

    I'm using "imouto" instead of her name for character-related reasons, just to clarify that. This is for a story I'm writing, and every once in a while, I like to add in Japanese phrases and sentences, where I can. This is a milestone in my character's development, though, and I wanted him to say the whole thing in Japanese.

    Here is the way I want to say it:

    "Arigatou gozaimasu, ore no imouto. Kokoro kara."

    Would that be correct Japanese or no?
  8. pink dragon Member

    Hello all, I'm Japanese.

    If I rewrite "Arigatou gozaimasu, ore no imouto. Kokoro kara.", it would be something like "Imouto yo, hontou ni arigatou."
    Even if "Kokoro kara" is literally correct translation, you don't have to use "kokoro kara". "Hontou ni" is enough.
    In English you don't say "Thank you really", but this is the way Japanese actually speak.
    "Yo" is used when we addressing somebody especially in a story.

    "Gozaimasu" is too polite whe you're talking to your sister.

    As for "Shinsoko kara", it's literally correct and OK in written Japanese. But we don't use the phrase very much in our daily conversation.

    I hope that helps! :)
  9. Taka New Member

    If "gozaimasu" is too polite, then what would be a way of stressing "arigatou"--stressing as in "thank you so much"--that would be more casual speech?
  10. Cereth

    Cereth Senior Member

    language of love
    Hello Taka what you need for streesing arigatou is "dōmo"
    "dōmo arigatou" you can add "ne" at the end of the phrase just as Flam said or leave it like that, it´s up to you...
  11. Taka New Member

    Arigatou, daredemo. :) {I hope that's right, anyway.... I'm self-teaching myself Japanese, and I have no idea if I'm teaching myself wrong or not.... Gr.}

    So.... Using all of this.... I gather it would be appropriate to say "Kokoro kara doumo arigatou-ne, ore no imouto," hai? Or, alternatively, "Hontou ni doumo...."

    Also, if "kokoro kara" means "from the heart," what would "hontou ni" mean? Is it roughly the same thing, only milder?
  12. Cereth

    Cereth Senior Member

    language of love
    Hontou ni means : Really
    but in this context saying: hontou ni arigatou, shows that you really really mean your gratitude (it is implied that you refer to your heart)...
    due to the fact that you are writting a book I guess you are free to say : Kokoro kara doumo arigatou-ne, ore no doesn´t sound very natural though...
    If I read your book and the character says something like that I would think that the character is somehow solemn but goofy at the same time a tuff guy whose heart is melting??..because he says "ore" instead of "watashi or boku"..ore no imouto sounds a little bit goofy to me..if you insist about saying "imouto" I recommend you to say "imouto" without "ore no"

    Imouto, hontou ni arigatou! /arigatou ne
    imouto, kokoro kara dōmo arigatou ne..
    or just like I recommended you before..
  13. Taka New Member

    That's a pretty good summary, actually. :) That's pretty much exactly it. I want to use "ore no" to stress the fact that it's his little sister because it means a lot to him. He's never had a sister before {due to interesting circumstances, he's never had any family period}, and one of his friends just "adopted" him as her older brother.

    To give you a good idea of his character, he uses "ore" for himself and "omae" for others. And actually, he's not saying this directly to her because she's already left. He's talking to himself, saying something he wishes he could say to her.... In dealing with emotional stuff, he's pretty close-mouthed around others.

    Did that clear anything up at all about why I'm insisting on saying it this particular way?
  14. Cereth

    Cereth Senior Member

    language of love
    Yes you did now!!!
    So, this is my recommendation:

    Hontou ni arigatou...ore no imouto...

    Due to the fact he´s talking to himself don´t say "ne" and "kokoro kara" it will sound corny..

    monogatari no kaku wo Ganbatte kudasai ne!
  15. Flaminius

    Flaminius coclea mod

    capita Iaponiae
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    Taka, if you can use the line as a self-reflection, I definitely suggest kansha-suru (to appreciate) in place of arigatō.

    Shinsoko-kara, kansha-shiteru-yo, oreno imōto.

    Appellative nouns sound very awkward in Japanese but I imagine "oreno imōto" is something one can encounter in literary translations. No problem.
  16. pink dragon Member

    Since other people has replied your questions (Flaminius's advice is perfect), I'll answer only this one.
    "Arigatou, daredemo." should be "Arigatou, minasan ("arigatou, minna" in a less polite way.)

    One more tip.
    If the guy in a story is a young person of the day, you could also use "maji de" to mean "honou ni (really)".
    We say "Maji de arigatou!" or "Maji de Thank you!" in a casual situation.
    There are various ways to say it...but I don't want to confuse you, so I won't write anymore.:)
  17. Taka New Member

    To use what pink dragon just taught me.... Arigatou, minasan! I really appreciate it.

    Atashi wa nihongo ga heta da. What does that mean? I can get bits and pieces of it, but not the whole thing...
  18. petite marie New Member

    Japan, Tokyo
    It means that my japanese is really bad- but the sentence structure should be something like this- watashi no ninhongo wa heta desune.
  19. Taka New Member

    Iie, I meant what does the quote mean. ^^; Sorry if that was unclear. I was saying, in reference to the quote, that I'm bad at Japanese, so what does that say.
  20. gaer

    gaer Senior Member

    Fort Lauderdale
    物語 ものがたり monogatari, story, tale
    の、no, possessive
    書く、かく、kaku, writing.
    物語の書く、writing of story
    を、o, sort of a "direct object-like" marker
    がんばって、ganbatte, keep going, don't give up.
    だ、da, form of "desu", but informal, very direct.

    "Don't give up writing your story (the writing of your story)!" I think is pretty much what Pink Dragon was saying. My guess, of course. ;)

  21. gaer

    gaer Senior Member

    Fort Lauderdale
    But I really like 心底から…

  22. pink dragon Member

    We say "Monogatari wo kaku no wo ganbatte kudasai ne!" :)
    Cereth is encouraging you.

    "Ganbatte" is used when when we encourage someone.
    "Ganbaru" is the verb.
    Japanese use this word a lot.

    (But, in the modern stressful world, doctors have started to point out that we should not say "Ganbatte" too much to people. They say we should not use this word especially to people suffering from depression. "Ganbatte" makes them feel more stressed out. So be careful! You can say "Anmari ganbaranaide ne" (Please do not ganbaru too much) to people who are working too hard, if you care about their mental/physical health.) ;)
  23. Hideo New Member

    EE UU

    I've only ever heard 心底 once, and in the context: ~心底に思いました。 It was a female athlete talking about some tough experience.

    心底から is the literal translation of "from the bottom of my heart", but I wonder if 心底から is a natural collocation..

  24. etudian Senior Member

    Japanese, Japan
    "心底から感謝" 677 hits on Google.
    "心の底から感謝" 47,300 hits on Google.

    I basically agree with Hideo. Though I don't think there's anything wrong with 心底から, 心の底から (kokoro no soko kara) seems much more common before 感謝. I would also omit から if I ever use 心底.

    "心底感謝" 23,700 hits on Google.

    Expressions like 心底疲れた (I'm really tired) and 心底惚れた (I'm really in love) also sound natural to me.
  25. ChrisYang New Member

    I think you could also say:

    magokoro wo komete 真心を込めて

    which literally means with all my true heart.
  26. Hiro Sasaki Senior Member

    Osaka, Japn
    Japan, Japanese
    First of all, I can't understand what Taka means. To your little sister,
    you may say : "Thank you so much, " Do you say " Thank you from
    the buttom of heart ". ? Do not translate " from the buttom of my heart".
    The whole sentence will become very add, with " the buttom of my heart "
    added. if you want to say it to your little sister.

    Secondly, I think that more people pronounce "Shinzoko" for 心底。
    It's better to say " 心の底 ( こころのそこから )。

    Hiro Sasaki
  27. Hiro Sasaki Senior Member

    Osaka, Japn
    Japan, Japanese
    ChrisYang san,

    You can do somethig 真心(まごころ)をこめて( in earnest, devotedly ),
    but 真心をこめて 感謝 sounds odd. 真底 (しんぞこ or しんそこ )から 感謝 is OK. It means "from the bottom of my heart, and I 'm not pretending to be
    thankful." Japanese is difficult also for Chinese. It's a foreing language
    although we use kanji.

    Hiro Sasaki
  28. Flaminius

    Flaminius coclea mod

    capita Iaponiae
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    真心を込めて and 感謝する is not a good collocation because of sense of redundancy. The literal meaning of 真心を込めて is "to imbue one's true earnest into some outward action." This is a mental activity. The action of 感謝する (be grateful) also takes place in the mental sphere. Therefore, the former cannot be imbued in the latter.

    The pronunciation of 心底 in the standard language is "shinsoko." Personally, I never noticed that it can be pronounced "shinzoko" before seeing the post above. Thanks, Hiro.
  29. Hiro Sasaki Senior Member

    Osaka, Japn
    Japan, Japanese
    Famin さん。 心底 に ふりがなをつける人は ほとんどいませんし ひらがなで 書く人
    も ほとんど いませんので 統計は とりにくいですが、 ”しんぞこ” で google で
    調べれば でてきます。 漢字は 心底であったり 真底だったりします。

    また ”しんぞこ ”が 正しいか ” しんそこ”が 正しいか まよっている人もいます。

    とにかく 両方の発音がなされていることが 確かですが どちらがstandard が
    もうすこし 調べてみます。 

    Hiro Sasaki
  30. Hiro Sasaki Senior Member

    Osaka, Japn
    Japan, Japanese
    I will explain more with some examples.

    1. 心底(しんそこ ) ありがとう :cross:

    2. 心底(しんそこ )(から)  ありがたいと思っていす。 :tick:
    This sentence implies that I am not pretending to be

    3. 心の底から ありがたく 思っています。 :cross:
    Correct, but we would no say so to" my little sister".

    About the pronunciation of "Soko" or "Zoko".

    どん底 ( どんぞこ ) rock bottom.

    上底( うわぞこ ) raised bottom.

    水底 ( みなぞこ or みなそこ ) the bottom of the water. (the sea )

    川底( かわぞこ ) bottom of the river.

    船底 ( ふなぞこ ) 

    Hiro Sasaki
  31. Hiro Sasaki Senior Member

    Osaka, Japn
    Japan, Japanese
    Gaer san, I would like to repeat. It must be used appropriately.

    心の底から = from the bottom of my heart.

    心底から = This implies a nuance of " I 'm being honest with you and
    I'm not pretending to be thankful "

    心底 can be used as an adverb,[

    心底 そう 信じているのですが ? Do you really believe it ?

    Hiro Sasaki
  32. etudian Senior Member

    Japanese, Japan

    "しんそこ" 11,700 hits on Google.
    "しんぞこ" 117 hits on Google.

    It appears that しんそこ is much more common, to say the least. 


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