From the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991

Discussion in 'Русский (Russian)' started by Lemminkäinen, Oct 14, 2007.

  1. Lemminkäinen

    Lemminkäinen Senior Member

    Oslo, Norway
    Norwegian (bokmål)
    Hi all,

    I'm wondering how to write the year in the above sentence. My grammar says that when a year is qualified with a noun phrase (for instance в апреле/весной), the year is written in the genitive case.

    Would this then be a correct translation of the topic title:

    С роспада Советского Союза тысячя девятьсот девяносто первого года...
     
  2. cyanista

    cyanista законодательница мод

    NRW
    Belarusian/Russian
    Where is the qualifying noun phrase in your sentence, then?

    С распадом (начиная с распада) СССР в тысяча девятьсот девяносто первом году...

    OR with a qualifying phrase:

    С распадом (начиная с распада) СССР зимой/в декабре тысяча девятьсот девяносто первого года...
     
  3. Lemminkäinen

    Lemminkäinen Senior Member

    Oslo, Norway
    Norwegian (bokmål)
    Hm, I was under the impression that maybe "the fall of the S.U." could be considered to qualify the year. Looks like I was mistaken.

    What if the preposition was dropped? I.e. роспад Советского Союза тысячя девятьсот девяносто первого года начал что-либо.
     
  4. tkekte Senior Member

    Russian/Israel
    Then yes, you could use the genitive, though в + locative sounds better. BTW, it's рaспад and тысячa. ;)
     
  5. Q-cumber

    Q-cumber Senior Member

    Such a wording is just not correct....unfortunately, I can't explain why, I just feel this. Tho you can safely say "Распад Советского Союза в тысяча девятьсот девяносто первом году послужил началом...and so on"
     
  6. Lemminkäinen

    Lemminkäinen Senior Member

    Oslo, Norway
    Norwegian (bokmål)
    I copy-pasted from my first post, but thanks for pointing it out :eek:

    Thanks for the input, everybody.
     
  7. cyanista

    cyanista законодательница мод

    NRW
    Belarusian/Russian
    It is incorrect because you don't use the genitive alone to make up an adverbial modifier of time - which is what's required here.

    Распад Советского Союза WHEN? в тысяча девятьсот девяносто первом году.
    ____________________________adverbial modifier of time

    Распад Советского Союза WHEN? весной OF WHAT YEAR? тысяча девятьсот девяносто первого года.
    ____________________________adv. m..______________genitive object
     
  8. Q-cumber

    Q-cumber Senior Member

    Hi cyanista!

    But we can say: весна тысяча девятьсот девяносто первого года. or even "Олимпида тысяча девятьсот девяносто первого года положила начало...и т.д." <it wasn't actually an Olympic year, this just for example> :confused:
     
  9. cyanista

    cyanista законодательница мод

    NRW
    Belarusian/Russian
    Of course we can. :)
    In that case "1991 года" is also a genitive object.* Not sure what you are getting at...


    *It can also be parsed as object + attribute but that's not particularly important for our discussion.
     
  10. Q-cumber

    Q-cumber Senior Member

    I see no principal difference between "Олимпида тысяча девятьсот девяносто первого года..." and "Распад Советского Союза тысяча девятьсот девяносто первого года." The only obvious distinction is that Олимпиада is a regular event.
     
  11. cyanista

    cyanista законодательница мод

    NRW
    Belarusian/Russian
    I see. Well, this distinction is not unimportant. The genitive object does serve as a descriptor in order to distinguish the event from other similar events and in the second case it would imply there was more than one collapse of the Soviet Union, wouldn't it?
     
  12. Q-cumber

    Q-cumber Senior Member

    Yes, I think this you are right.
     

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