Fuß or Fuss? (spelling / pronunciation)

Silvia

Senior Member
Italian
Hi all :)

I have a doubt... it's about the new spelling rules... is it Fuß or Fuss? Sorry for my silly question, but I'm trying to memorize this somehow ;)

Thank you!
 
  • Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    Silvia said:
    Hi all :)

    I have a doubt... it's about the new spelling rules... is it Fuß or Fuss? Sorry for my silly question, but I'm trying to memorize this somehow ;)

    Thank you!
    It is Fuß. :) The "u" would have to be shorter in Fuss.

    Jana
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Silvia said:
    Hi all :)

    I have a doubt... it's about the new spelling rules... is it Fuß or Fuss? Sorry for my silly question, but I'm trying to memorize this somehow ;)

    Thank you!
    It's Fuß - whether old or new. :)
     

    MrMagoo

    Senior Member
    Westphalia, Germany; German
    Hi Silvia,

    the vowel "u" is a long one, after a long vowel or diphthong, you have to write "ß" - true for both old and new spelling.

    "ss" however can be used when you don't have a "ß"-key, and also if you're in Switzerland, where "ß" is not used at all.

    All the best
    -MrMagoo
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    MrMagoo said:
    Hi Silvia,

    the vowel "u" is a long one, after a long vowel or diphthong, you have to write "ß" - true for both old and new spelling.

    "ss" however can be used when you don't have a "ß"-key, and also if you're in Switzerland, where "ß" is not used at all.

    All the best
    -MrMagoo
    Bearing in mind that unless you're in Switzerland, you would only resort to "ss" if you're typing and you don't have a ß. When you're writing, it has to be a ß (again, unless you're in der Schweiz ;)).
     

    MrMagoo

    Senior Member
    Westphalia, Germany; German
    elroy said:
    Bearing in mind that unless you're in Switzerland, you would only resort to "ss" if you're typing and you don't have a ß. When you're writing, it has to be a ß (again, unless you're in der Schweiz ;)).
    Did I say anything different?! ;)
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    elroy said:
    Bearing in mind that unless you're in Switzerland, you would only resort to "ss" if you're typing and you don't have a ß. When you're writing, it has to be a ß (again, unless you're in der Schweiz ;)).
    Not necessarily. :)

    If you write or type all letters upper cased, you have to use the "SS". There's no capital letter of the ß (there's only one other letter in the Latin script system that has that "feature"), so you have to spell it out as "SS":

    typing: Straße → STRASSE
    handwriting: Straße STRASSE
     

    Silvia

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Thank you all! Well, how do I know if the vowel is long or short?! Shame on me!!! Sorry, but I'm getting old and I feel as if I'm forgetting everything I learned about the German language! ;) Also, I've always typed the ß even in case of capital letters, because that letter is as big as a capital letter! Is that not allowed?
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Silvia said:
    Thank you all! Well, how do I know if the vowel is long or short?! Shame on me!!! Sorry, but I'm getting old and I feel as if I'm forgetting everything I learned about the German language! ;) Also, I've always typed the ß even in case of capital letters, because that letter is as big as a capital letter! Is that not allowed?
    How do you know? You just do. ;) It has to do with the semantics of the word.

    "SS" should be used if you're writing in caps. I guess ß isn't "not allowed," per se, but it's not common. :)
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    elroy said:
    How do you know? You just do. ;) It has to do with the semantics of the word.

    "SS" should be used if you're writing in caps. I guess ß isn't "not allowed," per se, but it's not common. :)
    I'm not sure, but I think it's more formal (depends on the perspective of 'formal') to use the SS writing in all-capital-letters words, such as "FUSSBALL". In my surname I have an ß, and in my ID card it is spelled as ß in capital letters, although most people read it as a B. ;)

    Silvia, when do you know when to stress a syllable in Italian? You just have to know that. I think there's no rule "laut deren" you could recognize a long vowel. Gotta learn it! ;)
     

    MrMagoo

    Senior Member
    Westphalia, Germany; German
    Whodunit said:
    Not necessarily. :)

    If you write or type all letters upper cased, you have to use the "SS". There's no capital letter of the ß (there's only one other letter in the Latin script system that has that "feature"), so you have to spell it out as "SS":

    typing: Straße → STRASSE
    handwriting: Straße STRASSE

    It is not wrong though to zse the letter "ß" among upper cased letters, e.g. "STRAßE" - another possibility is to substitute "SS" by "SZ" which is an old way, but still to be preferred, esp. when there are three "S" standing together otherwise as e.g. in "MASSSTAB" (=> better: "MASZSTAB").
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    MrMagoo said:
    It is not wrong though to zse the letter "ß" among upper cased letters, e.g. "STRAßE" - another possibility is to substitute "SS" by "SZ" which is an old way, but still to be preferred, esp. when there are three "S" standing together otherwise as e.g. in "MASSSTAB" (=> better: "MASZSTAB").
    I personally prefer to retain the ß - I just think it looks better. :)
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    MrMagoo said:
    It is not wrong though to zse the letter "ß" among upper cased letters, e.g. "STRAßE" - another possibility is to substitute "SS" by "SZ" which is an old way, but still to be preferred, esp. when there are three "S" standing together otherwise as e.g. in "MASSSTAB" (=> better: "MASZSTAB").
    Can you imagine I've never seen SZ before except in words like Szene or Polish words? :D Really. This may help you to continue with the strange SZ writing style, but I'll keep my SSS way: :)

    Die in traditioneller Schreibung mögliche Verwendung von SZ sieht die reformierte Schreibung nicht vor.
    Clear, isn't it?
     

    MrMagoo

    Senior Member
    Westphalia, Germany; German
    Whodunit said:
    Can you imagine I've never seen SZ before except in words like Szene or Polish words? :D Really. This may help you to continue with the strange SZ writing style, but I'll keep my SSS way: :)
    The "sz" writing style is not very common, but not wrong either - that's what I wanted to say by that.
    You can of course write what you want - traditionally though, "szs" is the better looking choice to avoid "sss".

    Die in traditioneller Schreibung mögliche Verwendung von SZ sieht die reformierte Schreibung nicht vor.
    Ja natürlich nicht: Viele traditionelle Schreibvarianten sieht die neue Rechtschreibung nicht vor! :) Sie sind deswegen allerdings weder falsch noch abzulehnen! ;)
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    MrMagoo said:
    The "sz" writing style is not very common, but not wrong either - that's what I wanted to say by that.
    You can of course write what you want - traditionally though, "szs" is the better looking choice to avoid "sss".
    If you don't like the "sss" style, how would you avoid "fff" and "mmm" then? The old spelling refuses such triple-consonansts in one row, that's why one wrote Nußschale and NUSZSCHALE. Am I right?
     

    MrMagoo

    Senior Member
    Westphalia, Germany; German
    Whodunit said:
    If you don't like the "sss" style, how would you avoid "fff" and "mmm" then? The old spelling refuses such triple-consonansts in one row, that's why one wrote Nußschale and NUSZSCHALE. Am I right?
    The problem here is that unlike "ff", "mm", "nn", etc., "ß" historically is NOT a double consonant (=ss) but consists of two different consonants (=s+z).

    There also occured three consonants in a row in the old spelling (e.g. "Sauerstoffflasche").
    I guess "szs" instead of "sss" was used because there were more possible words that would have triple-"sss" than any other triple-consonants.
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    MrMagoo said:
    The problem here is that unlike "ff", "mm", "nn", etc., "ß" historically is NOT a double consonant (=ss) but consists of two different consonants (=s+z).

    There also occured three consonants in a row in the old spelling (e.g. "Sauerstoffflasche").
    I guess "szs" instead of "sss" was used because there were more possible words that would have triple-"sss" than any other triple-consonants.
    Maybe I have the solution: If a word should begin with ß, we also use sz:

    Szene (instead of ßene)
    Szenario (ßenario)
    Szientismus (ßientismus)
    Szintigramm (ßintigramm)

    All of them have a "sharp s beginning", so we should need a ß, but since it isn't allowed to begin a word with the ß, one has to use the old form Sz... ;)
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Whodunit said:
    Maybe I have the solution: If a word should begin with ß, we also use sz:

    Szene (instead of ßene)
    Szenario (ßenario)
    Szientismus (ßientismus)
    Szintigramm (ßintigramm)

    All of them have a "sharp s beginning", so we should need a ß, but since it isn't allowed to begin a word with the ß, one has to use the old form Sz... ;)
    Isn't "Szene" pronounced /Zene/, though? :confused:
     

    berndf

    Moderator
    German (Germany)
    Hallo!
    Is Fuß pronounced as "foot" in English??

    I'm sorry if that was silly, but I just started learning German...
    The "ß" obviously not, it is an unvoiced /s/ and not a /t/. I guess you mean the vowel. The "u" in "Fuß" is rather like the "oo" in "food", i.e. longer and more closed than in "foot".
     

    apprenantjusquaubout

    Member
    English
    The "ß" obviously not, it is an unvoiced /s/ and not a /t/. I guess you mean the vowel. The "u" in "Fuß" is rather like the "oo" in "food", i.e. longer and more closed than in "foot".
    Danke Sehr :)

    Well, I was wondering if the u was pronounced something like that in foot or fumes (English)... But I realized its neither of the two!

    P.S: And yeah, I was doubtful about the ß as well, thanks you clarified that ;)
     
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