Fun, pleasure

[ThomasK]

The separate words have turned up in collocations already but not separate. The main question is: what are equivalents for words/concepts like "pleasure", "fun"? A little bit of etymological background would be interesting, too, but just a hint...

I suggest you mark the informal ones in bold, as they are the main focus! Thanks! (I am not looking for equivalents of 'joy')

Additional question: has your word evolved from a word having a pejorative connotation or even meaning?
I happened to notice that fun meant "a cheat, trick" (c. 1700), and has been derived from a verb like to fun (1680s) "to cheat, hoax" (etymonline.com). Same thing with the mainly Flemish words "leut(e)" and "pret", which refer to an original meaning like ‘bedrog’ (cheating), as is assumed, as for "leute" and to mnl. perte ‘scheme, ruse’ , vnnl. perte ‘id.’ , pratte, parte ‘conceit, ...' (etymologiebank.nl), respectively. Isn't that strange? Possible link: bizarre?

 

[ThomasK]

Dutch has words like
- pret, as in pretpark (amusement park)
- leute (not standard Dutch, I think)
- plezier, which is obviously related with pleasure and to please...
- amusement (more dialectal...)
- vermaak (fairly formal tbough)n very common in the Netherlands

 

[Awwal12]

Russian seems more verb-oriented than noun-oriented in that regard. Anyway,
удовольствие (udovól'stviye) "pleasure" (relatively formal), literally - something that involves making one pleased/glad/satisified;
наслаждение (naslazhdéniye) "enjoyment, delight" (rather bookish), lit. ~"upsweetening"
развлечение (razvlechéniye) "amusement, entertainment" (to avoid boredom), lit. "out-attracting"
кайф (kayf) "bliss; intense enjoyment" (lowered colloquial)

Please note that the concept of "fun" isn't equivalent to the more elementary concept of joy/happiness.

 

[ThomasK]

Very interesting note. Fact is that we "make" leute, pret, or that we have fun, indeed.

Russian seems more verb-oriented than noun-oriented in that regard. Anyway,
удовольствие (udovól'stviye) "pleasure" (relatively formal), literally - something that involves making one pleased/glad/satisified;
наслаждение (naslazhdéniye) "enjoyment, delight" (rather bookish), lit. ~"upsweetening"
развлечение (razvlechéniye) "amusement, entertainment" (to avoid boredom), lit. "out-attracting"
кайф (kayf) "bliss; intense enjoyment" (lowered colloquial)

Please note that the concept of "fun" isn't equivalent to the more elementary concept of joy/happiness.

Isn't the first one /udo.../ more like doing a favour? is it strictly speaking making fun? How would you use the verb in a sentence?
May I assume that /raz.../ is not really "fun"? It might have too negative a connotation... I am wondering whether we have an equivalent of that in Dutch.

But the main thing we look for is a word the kind of atmosphere there is when one is relaxing playfully or organising board games, playful activities generating a great, pleasant atmosphere, or friends among themselves (having drinks together perhaps, but not an "orgy").

 

[apmoy70]

Greek:

Fun:
(A) «Διασκέδαση» [ðʝaˈs̠ce̞.ðas̠i] (fem.) < Classical 3rd declension feminine deverbal noun «διασκέδασις-διασκεδάσεως» /diɐˈske.dɐsis/ (nom. sing.)-/diɐskeˈdɐ.seɔːs/ (gen. sing.) --> scattering < Classical athematic verb «διασκεδάννυμι» /diɐskeˈdɐn.nymi/ and later, «διασκεδάζω» /diɐskeˈdɐ.s͡dɔː/ --> to scatter to the winds, disband the army, disperse. It's a compound: Prefix & preposition «διά» /diˈɐ/ --> through, along + athematic verb «σκεδάννυμι» /skeˈdɐn.nymi/.
The semantic shift happened somewhere in the late Hellenistic/early Roman era, when with the usage of just the verb «διασκεδάννυμι-διασκεδάζω» they replaced the set-phrase «διασκεδάννυμι τήν θλίψην» /diɐskeˈdɐn.nymiˌtɛːn.ˈtʰli.p͡sɛːn/ --> to scatter/disperse the sorrow.
(B) «Ευχαρίστηση» [e̞fxaˈɾi.s̠t̠is̠i] (fem.) < Classical 3rd declension feminine deverbal noun «εὐχαρίστησις-εὐχαριστήσεως» /ey̯kʰɐˈri.stɛːsis/ (nom. sing.)-/ey̯kʰɐriˈstɛː.seɔːs/ (gen. sing.) --> gratification < Classical verb «εὐχαριστέω-εὐχαριστῶ» /ey̯kʰɐriˈste.ɔː/ (uncontracted)-/ey̯kʰɐriˈstɔ̂ː/ (contracted) --> to bestow a favour, be thankful, return thanks, a compound: Prefix & adverb «εὖ» /eŷ̯/ --> well + 3rd declension feminine noun «χάρις-χάριτος» /ˈkʰɐ.ris/ (nom. sing.)-/ˈkʰɐ.ritos/ (gen. sing.) --> grace, charm.
Both are used equally & interchangeably.

To (have) fun:
(I) «Διασκεδάζω» [ðʝas̠ce̞ˈða.z̠o̞] (see above).
(II) «Ευχαριστιέμαι» [e̞fxaɾis̠t̠ˈçe̞.me̞] which is the mediopassive voice of the active «ευχαριστώ» [e̞fxaɾiˈs̠t̠o̞] --> to return thanks, be thankful.
(I) is intransitive, (II) is transitive.

Pleasure:
(A) «Απόλαυση» [aˈpo̞.lafs̠i] (fem.) < Classical 3rd declension deverbal feminine noun «ἀπόλαυσις-ἀπολαύσεως» /ɐpoˈlɐy̯.sis/ (nom. sing.)-/ɐpoˈlɐy̯.seɔːs/ (gen. sing.) --> act of enjoying, fruition, enjoyment, pleasure < Classical verb «ἀπολαύω» /ɐpoˈlɐy̯.ɔː/ --> to have enjoyment, a compound: Prefix & preposition «ἀπό» + (inseparable) verb «*λαύω» */ˈlɐy̯ː.ɔː/ --> to gain, produce, from a Proto-Hellenic root *λᾱϝ- *lāw- cognate with neuter noun «λήιον» /ˈlɛː.i.on/ --> standing crop, feminine noun «λείᾱ» /ˈleː.ɐː/ --> booty, spoils, adjective «λᾱρός» /lɐːˈros/ --> delicious, sweet, fine. Its etymology is unclear.
(b) «Ηδονή» [iðo̞ˈni] (fem.) --> pleasure, sensual pleasure < Classical feminine noun «ἡδονή» /hɛːdoˈnɛː/ (idem), a deverbal from the deponent verb «ἥδομαι» /ˈhɛː.domɐi̯/ --> to rejoice cognate with adjective «ἡδύς» /hɛːˈdys/ --> sweet, «ἡδυλισμός» /hɛːdyliˈsmos/ (masc.) --> sexual intercourse (PIE *suedh₂d-/*suedh₂d-u- sweet cf. Skt. स्वर्दते /ˈs̪ʋɐɾ.d̪ɐ.t̪eː/, to taste, relish, Latin suāvis, Proto-Germanic *swōtuz > Eng. sweet, Ger. süß, Dutch zoet).
(A) is the generic noun, (B) has sexual connotation.

To (have) pleasure:
(I) MoGr uses the suppletive «απολαμβάνω» [apo̞lamˈva.no̞] < Classical v. «ἀπολαμβάνω» /ɐpolɐmˈbɐ.nɔː/ --> to take/receive from another, take one's due («ἀπό» (see earlier) + verb «λαμβάνω» /lɐmˈbɐ.nɔː/). The ancient «ἀπολαύω» hasn't survived.
(II) Deponent verb «ηδονίζομαι» [iðo̞ˈni.z̠o̞me̞].
(I) is more of a generic verb, (II) is more connected with sensual/sexual pleasure.

 

[ThomasK]

Great information, Apmoy!
As for fun: are both words informal mainly? /euch.../ reminds me of the Eucharist in Catholic churches, but I suppose your noun is much more informal. Or isn't it?
As for pleasure: the A is fairly informal, and does the sensual/ sexual connotation make the word to some extent negative?

i guess the verbs illustrate something that Awwal pointed out: there is both a noun and a verb orientation (not only verb, as in Russian), whereas we have to use expressions like to have/ to make [+ fun] noun.

 

[apmoy70]

Great information, Apmoy!
As for fun: are both words informal mainly? /euch.../ reminds me of the Eucharist in Catholic churches, but I suppose your noun is much more informal. Or isn't it?

They could be used in formal language. Eucharist is a younger word, taken from the Christian Gospel according to Matthew: «καὶ λαβὼν τὸ ποτήριον καὶ εὐχαριστήσας ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς λέγων» - "then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying" (NKJV Matth. 26:27). The fathers of the early Church then coined the word «Εὐχαριστίᾱ» /ey̯kʰɐriˈsti.ɐː/ (fem.) --> lit. giving thanks for the Sacrament of Holy Communion. «Εὐχαριστία» ≠ «εὐχαρίστησις».
In MoGr we use it in plural as «ευχαριστίες» [e̞fxaɾiˈsti.e̞s̠] (fem. nom.) as a means to express gratitude in a formal occasion (be it in oral or written form) something like warmest thanks or special thanks.

As for pleasure: the A is fairly informal, and does the sensual/ sexual connotation make the word to some extent negative?

I wouldn't say negative per se, but it does carry buggage. It's highly charged.

 

[Circunflejo]

For pleasure we have placer from Latin placere. In some contexts, gozo (from Latin gaudium) may work too and satisfacción too.

For fun with have diversión (from Latin diversio, ultimately from Latin diversus). Divertimiento derived from the verb divertir(se) and divertimento borrowed from Italian exist too.

 

[ThomasK]

They could be used in formal language. Eucharist is a younger word, taken from the Christian Gospel according to Matthew: «καὶ λαβὼν τὸ ποτήριον καὶ εὐχαριστήσας ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς λέγων» - "then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying" (NKJV Matth. 26:27). The fathers of the early Church then coined the word «Εὐχαριστίᾱ» /ey̯kʰɐriˈsti.ɐː/ (fem.) --> lit. giving thanks for the Sacrament of Holy Communion. «Εὐχαριστία» ≠ «εὐχαρίστησις».
In MoGr we use it in plural as «ευχαριστίες» [e̞fxaɾiˈsti.e̞s̠] (fem. nom.) as a means to express gratitude in a formal occasion (be it in oral or written form) something like warmest thanks or special thanks.

I wouldn't say negative per se, but it does carry buggage. It's highly charged.

Thanks for the interesting background information (again, of course!).

The buggage: you might have coined a new word, combining luggage and baggage! Or did you use it on purpose to express some kind of special connotation. I certainly considertravelling with buggage at least!

 

[apmoy70]

Nah, it's just a typo

 

[nizzebro]

Isn't that strange? Possible link: bizarre?

Maybe the overall logic is just like - foolish -> hence, both making smb a fool (cheating), and fooling around (no work - a fun time).

As for "fun" as a general concept, to me as a Russian it is somewhat odd, and I believe it is not because of syntactic issues: there are a lot examples when "having/making X" is successfully projected onto a Russian verb form. There were propaganda stereotypes that we don't have a word for "fun" because we don't have it, spending life in exiles and gulags (despite that the other Slavic languages are no much different in concepts). However, the thing is that usually a more specific phrasing is used, and, I just cannot grasp such a generalisation: what does "fun" mean? If it is something pre-planned (we're gonna have a little fun), it is one idea, and if it is more of a spontaneous thing (it was so much fun), it is different - emotions proper cannot be planned, I believe. For the first, I would use развлечься (roughly - to entertain-self, distract) or I would be more specific, and for the second - было весело (lit. "it was a cheer,fun"); and the only concept common for them is e.g. провести время весело/хорошо - "to spend time cheerfully/well", i.e. to have a nice time. In the case of the pure noun, it's the same story and highly context-dependent. "Pleasure" is generally удовольствие; it is less contradictory.

 

[atcheque]

Russian seems more verb-oriented than noun-oriented in that regard.

🧐 That's the same for French
have fun, in fun: s'amuser, pour s'amuser
take, give pleasure: faire plaisir (take: impersonal Ça fait plaisir ).

 

[ThomasK]

🧐 That's the same for French
have fun, in fun: s'amuser, pour s'amuser
take, give pleasure: faire plaisir (take: impersonal Ça fait plaisir ).

As for the latter: is there no mix-up with faveur? Or no: I am mixing up myself, I guess, with Ils me font un plaisir [not fitting in here, I would say] vs. Ils font du plaisir (never à qq1, I guess). When the French (...) font du plaisir, ils s'amusent, I think. Correct?

I suddenly think of another word in Dutch, which has a false friend in English: we can lol maken/ trappen (make fun, kick lol), which implies: no worries, big fun, we have a great time, a lot of action. Since internet we have got used to LOL [laugh outloud], but that is only an interjection, i think, not a noun.

 

[atcheque]

@ThomasK , with faveur, I can think about demander/ faire une faveur à quelqu'un .
Faire du plaisir

 

[ThomasK]

I am sorry, I thought I knew more French ;-). But can you faire un plaisir à qq1? I suppose I am mixing up with Dutch (Flemish), my languages, where we can say that we iemand een plezier willen (that we want to do (?) a favour to a person).

But then having fun is something like on s'amuse, I guess? Correct?

 

[atcheque]

But can you faire un plaisir à qq1?

It's possible but it's much more emphasis than normal speech for be nice.

 

[Włoskipolak 72]

Polish

pleasure = przyjemność (n)

przyjemniaczek = ostensibly nice person (n)

enjoyment = przyjemność, radość.

delight = zachwyt, wielka przyjemność.

amusement = rozbawienie, wesołość, rozrywka.

entertainment = rozrywka

bliss = błogość, rozkosz. (béatitude)

 

[apmoy70]

Polish
delight = zachwyt, wielka przyjemność.

«Τέρψη» [ˈt̠e̞ɾ.p͡s̠i] (fem.) < Ancient Greek 3rd declension feminine noun «τέρψις-τέρψεως» /ˈter.p͡͡sis/ (nom. sing.)-/ˈter.p͡seɔːs/ (gen. sing.) --> delight, a deverbal derivative from the verb «τέρπω» /ˈter.pɔː/ --> to satiate, refresh, delight, satisfy (PIE *terp- to satiate cf. Skt. तृप्यति /ˈt̪r̩pja.t̪i/ to enjoy, Proto-Germanic *þurftiz > Ger. Durft, Dutch nooddruft).

entertainment = rozrywka

«Ψυχαγωγία» [p͡s̠ixaɣo̞ˈʝi.a] (fem.) < Koine feminine noun «ψῡχαγωγίᾱ» /p͡syːkʰɐgɔːˈgi.ɐː/ --> lit. guidance of souls, (relig.) necromancy, metaph. recreation, from the adjective «ψῡχαγωγός» /p͡syːkʰɐgɔːˈgos/ --> lit. guide of dead souls (epithet of god Hermes who led the dead souls in Hades), necromancer, later, entertainer, a compound: Feminine noun «ψῡχή» /p͡syːˈkʰɛː/ + feminine noun «ἀγωγή» /ɐgɔːˈgɛː/.

bliss = błogość, rozkosz. (béatitude)

«Ευδαιμονία» [e̞vðe̞mo̞ˈni.a] (fem.) < Ancient Greek feminine noun «εὐδαιμονίᾱ» /ey̯dɐi̯moˈniɐː/ --> bliss, happiness, (Aristotle) ideal state of being achieved by living virtuously, a compound: Prefix and adverb «εὖ» /eŷ̯/ --> well + 3rd declension masculine noun «δαίμων-δαίμονος» /ˈdɐi̯.mɔːn/ (nom. sing.)-/ˈdɐi̯.monos/ (gen. sing.) --> godlike power, fate, lesser god (PIE *deh₂-/*deh₂-i- to cut, divide cf. Skt. भग /ˈbʱɐ.ɡɐ/ dispenser, Proto-Slavic *bogъ luck, fate, Proto-Germanic *tīmô > Eng. time).

 

[Penyafort]

Catalan:

1) Having to do with pleasure as in physical or emotional satisfaction of the senses:

plaer [pləˈɛ] (or pler) [plɛ] (m) => pleasure
< Archaic Catalan plader/plaser < Latin placēre
-- plaure => to please

goig [ˈɡɔt͡ʃ] (m) (also the learned word gaudi) => pleasure, enjoyment, delight
< Latin gaudiu(m)
-- gaudir => to enjoy

delit [də'lit] (m) (also the learned words delectació, delectança, f) => (great) pleasure, delight
< Latin delectu(s)
-- delir-se => desire, yearn, pine

fruïció [fɾuisi'o] (f) => pleasure, enjoyment, relish
< Latin fruitiōne(m)
-- fruir => to enjoy, to take pleasure in

complaença [kumpləˈɛnsə] (f) pleasure, satisfaction
< complaure + suffix -ença < Latin complacēre
-- complaure => to please, to satisfy


2) Having to do with fun, enjoyment in an activity:

diversió [diβəɾsi'o] (f) (also, in some contexts, divertiment, m) => fun
< Latin diversiōne(m) [The use of it for 'fun' seems to be postmedieval, originally just meaning diversion, detour]

Some words meaning 'noisy activity which implies some fun', some with interesting etymologies:

gresca ['ɡɾɛs.kə] (f) < Old Catalan greesca 'a dice game (which would often cause quarrels)' < Latin graecisca '(typical of the) Greek' (Note: Spanish borrowed the word from Catalan, but only with the meaning of 'quarrel, uproar', no fun)

xerinola [ʃəɾi'nɔ.lə] (f) < Cerignola, an Italian town, because of the Battle of Cerignola between Spain and France in 1503, one of the first European battles won by gunpowder weapons

tabola [təˈbɔlə] (f) < tabaola, metathesis of bataiola < batallola 'gardrail in a ship (where combats were stronger)' < batalla 'battle' + dimin. suffix -ola < Latin batt(u)ālia 'fighting exercises of gladiators'

gatzara [ɡəˈd͡zaɾə] (f) < Andalusi Arabic ġazāra 'talkativeness, buzz' < ġazzar 'to talk abundantly, to abound' < Arabic ġazāra 'abundance'


A certain pattern can be seen in the word's meaning going from 'quarrel/fight/brawl' to 'noisy activity with many people' to 'noisy funny activity'.

None of these words above, though, can be considered informal. Some might even be seen as formal or literary by many. This is probably because speakers don't really use nouns for expressing this, but rather verbs or verbal phrases like xalar [ʃəˈla] and passar-ho bé (Literally, 'to pass it well'. The vulgar register would then mainly consist of changing the adverb bé for a more colloquial expressive adverbial phrase: passar-ho de collons, etc.)