futuro semplice e futuro anteriore

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by reginaldo, May 4, 2006.

  1. reginaldo Member

    english australia
    buongiorno a tutti

    Sto facendo un esercizio in cui si deve completare una frase con il futuro oppure il futuro anteriore, del verbo "trovare"

    < Nessuno imaginava che voi la -------------------(trovare)

    Ho usato , "avrete trovato" I then translate the sentence as < no one imagined that you will have found it>

    this doesn't seem to make sense, would appreciate some comments

  2. vincenzochiaravalle

    vincenzochiaravalle Senior Member

    Dear friend,

    My comment is that you seem to be perfectly right!

    This sentence suggests a "condizionale passato" as the only possible completion. That is:

    Nessuno immaginava che voi la avreste trovata (trovare)
    Nobody imagined you would have found it
    Nobody imagined you were going to find it

    Or maybe a 'trapassato congiuntivo':

    Nessuno immaginava che voi la aveste trovata (trovare)
    Nobody imagined you had found it

    Nessuno immaginava che voi la avrete trovata (trovare)
    Here, "avrete trovata" IS a futuro anteriore, the translation IS "you will have found it", and it DOES make NO sense...

    Of course then, I CAN say "nessuno immagina che voi la toverete" (present "immagina" and future "troverete") and it is "nobody expects you to find it", but you need "immagina", and not "immaginava"...

    Take care,

  3. TimeHP

    TimeHP Senior Member

    Italian - Italy
    Avrete trovato/a non va bene.
    Per dare l'idea del futuro riferito a un'azione passata, devi usare l'avreste trovato/a.

    Immagino che l'avrai trovata - Presente + futuro anteriore
    Immaginavo che l'avresti trovata - Imperfetto + condizionale passato

  4. Necsus

    Necsus Senior Member

    Formello (Rome)
    Italian (Italy)
    Ho la vaga impressione che la frase dell'esercizio non sia esatta... :confused:
    Il futuro anteriore indica un'azione che è futura rispetto al momento in cui si parla, ma che sarà passata rispetto a un'altra azione, pure futura, in genere espressa con il futuro semplice (eg: andremo a giocare quando avremo finito i compiti).
    Francamente non vedo come si possa completare l'esempio con un futuro, semplice o anteriore, quando nella reggente c'è un verbo all'imperfetto, per di più complicato dall'uso di immaginare, che in quanto verbo che esprime opinione, vuole il congiuntivo (imperfetto o trapassato, in questo caso), o il condizionale (passato).
  5. reginaldo Member

    english australia
    Ciao vincenzo, TIMEHP,and Necus
    grazie mille per i tuoi risposti. ero contento da leggere che l,uso del futuro anteriore non era giusto
    con cordiali saluti Reginaldo
  6. sapphira Member

    Shanghai, China
    China, Chinese
    I was told that both tenses can be used to indicate logical probability (
    for example, sarà gia arrivato = he must have arrived).

    But what is the difference between the two senses? For example, which tense shall I use when I'd like to say "it must be very cold tomorrow"? "Avrà molto freddo domani" or "avrà avuto molto freddo domani"?

    My book (in Chinese) says very vaguely about it. So I hope someone here can help me :)

    Thanks in advance.
  7. deny80 Senior Member

    Italian - Italy
    Attenzione: "to be cold" = "fare freddo"
    It means the weather is cold, not that a person is cold.

    It's cold = fa freddo
    It must be very cold tomorrow = Dovrebbe fare molto freddo domani o Probabilmente farà molto freddo domani.

    Futuro anteriore is used when an action in the future occurs before another.

    Ex. Telefonami quando avrai finito. = Call me when you are finished.
  8. Radiant Spring Senior Member

    Italian / German (GER) - bilingual
    'Farà molto freddo domani'
    'Sarà stato molto freddo domani' doesn't make much sense since it means 'Tomorrow it's going to have been very cold'...
  9. MünchnerFax

    MünchnerFax Senior Member

    Italian, Italy
    Talking about logical probability, futuro anteriore describes something in the past:
    - Gigi è andato in vacanza in Groenlandia.
    - In Groenlandia?? Avrà fatto freddo tutto il tempo!
    - Infatti, è tornato con una polmonite. :D

    Therefore it's not suitable with the future ("tomorrow").
  10. Ramblings Member

    That is exactly what I was going to say!!!Of course Italian is not my mother tongue( :( ) but I'll do my best...I ll try to make a correllation with english.Natives of Italian, please let me know if I got it right ...

    Lui avra le sue ragioni per farlo is close in meaning to :
    He must have his reasons for doing this ( he hasn t acted yet,he will in the future, we are making a logical deduction for the future)

    Lui avra avuto le sue ragioni per averlo fatto
    He must have had his reasons for doing this ( he has already acted, so we are making a logical deduction about the reasons that caused him to act that way in the past)

    Hope I ve helped you and not confused you...:eek:
  11. MünchnerFax

    MünchnerFax Senior Member

    Italian, Italy
    I just corrected your A's in avrà for other learners, I suppose you can't write accents with your keyboard.
  12. sapphira Member

    Shanghai, China
    China, Chinese
    Thanks, all. I understand the part when futuro anteriore is used for an anterior future action, what confuses me is the other usage.

    After reading your replies, if my understanding is right: futuro anteriore is used in such situations as " sb./sth. must have been/done...." (to guess something already happened), while futuro semplice means "sb./sth. must be/do...." (to guess something in the future). Am I right?

    And sorry for all my muddled italian.:eek: I must have been too anxious about the tense! (Sarò stata fin troppo ansiosa del tempo! <- correct?:eek: )
  13. sapphira Member

    Shanghai, China
    China, Chinese
    BTW, I cannot type accents with my keyboard or laptop either :(
    Tips from some western websites don't help.
  14. sapphira Member

    Shanghai, China
    China, Chinese
    I think Rambling's question and MünchnerFax's reply answer all my questions. Thank you :D
  15. ElFrikiChino

    ElFrikiChino Senior Member

    Italian (Mantova)
    I'm sure you can install the features for an Italian keybord in you laptop, you just have to ask someon who can do it to do it. I've got a Chinese keybord!

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