Gardellino - Cardellino

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by Ruspoli, Apr 16, 2006.

  1. Ruspoli New Member

    Español - España
    Hello to all: I am from Spain and I write just al little bit English. I hope you will excuse me.

    The cuestion is the following one: There is a concerto (flute concerto Op. 10 nº 3, RV 428) from Antonio Vivaldi, the celebrated composer who wrote "The four seasons", that has the surname "Il Gardellino", but this word does not exist in the usual dictionaries. It is supposed that the flute imitates the goldfinch, so, it may be called "Il Cardellino" instead "Il Gardellino", but 99% of discs, musicians and scholars use the word "gardellino" as surname of that concerto. It's very possible that the original manuscript bears the title "Il Gardellino", but I ignore that point. So, "gardellino" could be an early form of "cardellino"; or may it be the venetian dialect word for "cardellino" on the first half of 18th century?

    Thanks for your help.

  2. You little ripper! Senior Member

    Australian English
    There is one of his works called Il Cardellino. Link
  3. Ruspoli New Member

    Español - España
    Well, I do know that sometimes the concerto RV 428 is called "Il Cardellino", even in discs, but is exceptional (the same concerto, RV 428 in the catalogue of Peter Ryom, in 99% of occasions receives the title "Il Gardellino" only exceptionally is called "Il Cardellino". If you write that word in Google you will see hundreds of pages searched, but is always the same recording.

    So, I repeat my previous question: "gardellino" could be an early form of "cardellino"; or may it be the venetian dialect word for "cardellino" on the first half of 18th century?
  4. TimLA

    TimLA Member Emeritus

    Los Angeles
    English - US
    I googled with both words, and like you, found that they were interchangeable. I could not find "gardellino" in Devoto-Olio, but obviously "cardellino" was there. I think we'll have to wait for our native friends' opinions.
  5. Ruspoli New Member

    Español - España
    Thank you, let's wait.
  6. Juri Senior Member

    Koper, near Trieste
    Vivaldi was Venetian; seems quite normal he said Gardellino.He wasn't a linguist. Still today we all say "gardèl" or "gardelìn".
  7. gardellino New Member

    some more musical references [from BBC Radio3 schedule]
    I hope it helps!
    12:31 AM Rossini, Gioachino (1792-1868) L' Italiana in Algeri - Overture Il gardellino

    12:38 AM Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus (1756-1791) Serenade (K.388) in C minor for wind octet (K.384a) Il gardellino

    12:58 AM Spohr, Louis (1784-1859) Notturno for wind and Turkish band (Op.34) in C major Il gardellino

    1:30 AM Mendelssohn, Felix (1809-1847) Overture for wind instruments (Op.24) in C major Il gardellino

  8. DAH

    DAH Senior Member

    Los Angeles
    Gardelin is Venetian: gardelìn (Fringilla carduelis) - sing. - zoo. ENG: goldfinch - ITA: cardellino.

Share This Page