gelten + um/für/etc.

Gavril

Senior Member
English, USA
Hello,

Is there a difference of meaning (or of frequency) between, gelten um, gelten für and gelten + dative?

For example, would there be a difference between

Dieses Problem gilt auch für die Chemieindustrie
Dieses Problem gilt auch um die Chemieindustrie
or
Dieses Problem gilt auch der Chemieindustrie

Danke
 
  • Schimmelreiter

    Senior Member
    Deutsch
    I don't think Problem and gelten go together well. I'd say Dieses Problem betrifft auch die Chemieindustrie.


    Let's go back to gelten now:

    Dieses Gesetz gilt auch für die Chemieindustrie.
    Mein Appell gilt der Chemieindustrie: Halten Sie sich an dieses Gesetz!

    I don't think gelten and um ​go together.
     

    perpend

    Banned
    American English
    I agree with Schimmelreiter that "Problem" and "gelten" are not a good fit, and it makes me wonder what you want to say in English, Gavril. If you could describe what you want to convey in English, it could aid in finding a better solution.
     

    Gavril

    Senior Member
    English, USA
    I'm not trying to say anything in particular, I was just trying to learn more about how gelten is used.

    Google Translate (not perfect, I know) translates "This problem applies to the chemical industry as well" as Dieses Problem gilt auch für die Chemieindustrie.

    I also found some examples of this construction online, e.g.,

    "Dieses Problem gilt auch für Berlin: die Stadt steht beim Arbeitsmarkt unter grossem Druck"

    I'm not saying that Problem and gilt are necessarily a good fit, just that this combination doesn't seem unheard of.
     

    Schimmelreiter

    Senior Member
    Deutsch
    I agree with Schimmelreiter that "Problem" and "gelten" are not a good fit, and it makes me wonder what you want to say in English, Gavril. If you could describe what you want to convey in English, it could aid in finding a better solution.
    I believe Gavril wants to say This problem also applies to the chemical industry and found gelten for apply. Now, whilst a regulation applies to/gilt für a certain group of people, it's just not idiomatic to combine Problem with ​gelten.



    PS
    Dieses Problem gilt auch für Berlin
    You're right, this use is quite common. Bad German is quite common. Let's wait for others to comment.
     
    Last edited:

    perpend

    Banned
    American English
    "This problem applies to the chemical industry as well" as Dieses Problem gilt auch für die Chemieindustrie.
    Even the English is a bit odd. It would depend on context. I would better understand "this solution applies to ..."
    When it's "problem", it seems off.

    "Dieses Problem gilt auch für Berlin: die Stadt steht beim Arbeitsmarkt unter grossem Druck"
    I could understand that to mean that the problem is also valid for Berlin. I think that's a different context than the "applies scenario".

    In general, I usually think of "gelten" to be more related to "to be valid".

    I may be missing something.
     
    Last edited:

    Frieder

    Senior Member
    gelten für: Gesetze gelten für alle.
    gelten + Dativ: Meine Aufmerksamkeit gilt der Rosenzucht
    gelten + als: Er gilt als großer Schriftsteller.
    gelten + es: Es gilt, die gestellten Aufgabe zu bewältigen.
    colloquial: Bangemachen gilt nicht :).
     
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